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Closers more valuable than starters?

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Re: my two cents

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:13 pm

quicksilver8 wrote:Closers and relievers can help a fantasy team. I don't think that point can be disputed. But a stud starting pitcher should always be the cornerstone of a fantasy staff if you can get one. Plus, remember that the closer/reliever has to be so much better than the starting pitcher in order to acheive the 'same help level' as shown in the thread mentioned by cornbread (with Gagne and Prior as examples: Gagne had to have such an awsome era and whip and k/9 to effect the same change as prior with his 3.35 era...)
You need closers on your staff, but don't waste early round draft choices on them...

but my point is you dont need Gagne. There are a lot of elite MR that will post ridiculously low %s and likewise high Ks: Gordon, Ricon, Otsuka. So what if they dont get saves - their W/IP, ERAimp, WHIPimp, K/IP are all phenominal and you can get them dirt cheap.

We actually have a similar strategy - I dont draft closers early either, but its more because of value reasons - high turnover and whatnot, but I do believe the elite closer like Gagne are worth every penny and if he falls to far I will be all over him.
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Postby bleach168 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:50 pm

The SI article did a pretty poor job of playing with the numbers. Since twice as many SP's got 10 wins then RP's got 10 saves, the stats they come up with are unfairly biased towards RP's. Then it lazily glossed over the stats without much regard to how much it REALLY impacts a fantasy team. Those numbers are very misleading. A reliever with a 1.10 WHIP is NOT more helpful than a starter with a 1.20 WHIP if the average WHIP in your league is 1.40.

The cafe version of the article is a billion times better. ;-D

I do have an issue with RP's being ranked so high however. Because RP's normally pitch such a small sample size, it makes them unreliable from year to year. Sure, Gagne is a beast and I can see him going high in drafts but look at the other top 10 RP's on EsyleS' list,

1. Gagne
2. Mota
3. Marte
4. Cormier
5. Hasegawa
6. Donelly
7. Rivera
8. Hawkins
9. Foulke
10. Soriano

Unless you're an elite closer like Gagne, Rivera, or Foulke, those guys did horrible in 2004.

The limited amount of innings provided by RP's makes it harder to project future stats. Since starters pitch 3 times as many innings, it's much easier to predict how they will do. That's why I feel starters will always be superior to relievers.
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Postby MeShawn » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:53 pm

I like the article, but on one point, I don't understand their logic.

If relievers beat starters in ERA, WHIP, and K/IP, doesn't that make solid starters all the more valuable? Becuase if there are few quality starters (compared to closers), then wouldn't they just become more valuable to a fantasy team (and vice versa for closers)? Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Someone, please clarify.

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