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Pedro negotiations

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Postby lesgrant » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:41 am

JRM4833 wrote:How is it standard? League industry standards are that if you make an offer to a team, and the team accepts it, you are normally bound by it, especially when it involves dealbreaking offers (such as an extra year, etc.). He made such an offer to the Sox (the three year guarenteed deal with all the fancy perks) and when they accepted it, he went back shopping to the Mets. When he made another such offer the the Mets, and the Mets accepted it, he went shopping back to the Sox. He said he was hurt and angry with the Sox after they gave in to his demands. As they had many times before. Don't get me wrong. I'm not angry about it. Just a bit disappointed in Pedro.

First of all, players don’t make offers. They make demands and the teams will make an offer based on those demands. Pedro demanded 4 years from the get-go. My point is that all of this specific info about who said what and who did what is just Red Sox propaganda and it deflects some of the blame from the Sox. The Red Sox have had a long, illustrious history bashing superstars on their way out. Rice, Fisk, Rocket, Boggs, Vaughn, etc. I mean is there a marquis player who left Boston for another team that you didn’t take character cheap shots at? The result in this instance is that, you, as a fan, are “disappointed in Pedro”, not the Red Sox.

JRM4833 wrote:Pedro has had MRIs. This is how doctors determine tears and similar injuries. Not by surgery. I don't know where you got that idea. The 90% number might be exagerated to some extent, but I don't think ESPN is making it up out of thin air. And I don't think they'd simply take the Sox's word for it. It's not a lie. It could be wrong information. But it's certainly not a lie. Why you think ESPN and Jayson Stark would make up a number is beyond me. Their reputation is on the line.

I’m not going into details about Stark and his credibility as a “journalist”, as an earlier response to our exchange summed it up perfectly, including specifics issues surrounding Pedro’s shoulder. Similarly, there was an excellent piece in the New York Times today which illustrates my points from my original post yesterday: ... oref=login

The last line sums it up: “. . . the business of baseball is a two-way street, and home is where the hype is.”

JRM4833 wrote:Well I posted you a link. You really don't know much about the Sox in the Dominican. They just opened up the first real baseball camp there. They gave a ton of money to the flood victims. They have more known Dominicans on their team than any other. You should have seen Fenway this year. Dominicans everywhere waving flags. It was a nice sight. Why you think simply having a Dominican GM is going to get all the Dominican players I don't really understand. The Dominican fans know names like Pedro, Manny, Ortiz. They don't know the name Minaya all too well.

I think you are discounting the value of players from the Dominican. These are the role models for young baseball players there. Not the GMs and other bigshots. We are bombarded with information about the Red Sox in the Dominican here. I don't think you get quite how popular the Sox are there.

But personally, I don't like someone just because I have the same race or religion as them. I happen to be Jewish but wouldn't like a team because they signed a Jewish GM. But you can be sure I know most of the Jewish players in the league.

We'll see about Pedro's support. You can downplay the population of Boston all you like, but you haven't seen it first hand. And I've posted a link to show the unbelievable enthusiasm for the Sox in the Dominican. From a NY paper I might add.

I lived in Boston for two years. I lived on Beacon and you can see the end of my apartment row when foul balls sail over the Monster. I now live NYC, and have spent considerable time in Washington Heights, as my girlfriend lived there for two years. So my perspective comes from experiencing both communities first hand. And within those communities, I have had my fair share of discussions about baseball. So, while the article was interesting, I don’t need to read about how Dominicans feel about MLB, Pedro or the Red Sox, I’ll just ask someone.

Not to discount your experience, but being Jewish in America is much different from being latino or black. Religion is not the same as race, period. Even relative to MLB the experience is totally different. Hank Greenberg rose to stature way before any black or latino was even allowed to clean the stadium after the game. Even before Greenberg, Jews who wanted to play MLB just changed their name. You can’t change the color of your skin. That’s the difference. And today, there are multiple times more Jewish owners and front office personnel in MLB than there are black and latino excecutives combined. Having a Dominican GM who is actively pursuing Dominican players is a world of difference from Theo Epstein, an Ivy League “gringo”, pursuing Dominican talent. It’s night and day and it’s obvious. But, I don’t expect most whites to understand that concept. But, it’s a major factor nonetheless. I mean, it was a huge deal to blacks and latinos here in NYC that Minaya, raised in Queens hired an African American, Willie Randolph, who was raised in Brooklyn. Along the same lines, Pedro made his announcement, not on ESPN or to another American media outlet like the Associated Press, but on a Dominican TV station. I know that Red Sox fans like to think that they have the market cornered in the DR, but that era is over. You’ve been trumped by Fred Wilpon and Omar Minaya.
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Postby slomo007 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:18 pm

Solid post lesgrant...thanks for the insight. ;-D
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