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Yet Another Ethics Question

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Postby stomperrob » Sat May 29, 2004 1:51 pm

If I was playing with friends and I added something unusual such as you did to the scoring, I would go out of my way to explain it to everyone, but that's just me.
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Postby Capnpitz » Sat May 29, 2004 2:27 pm

If you're going to play a dual role as commish and player, you have to keep your separate hats separate. You said yourself that this is where the tension lies. You failed to do this when setting up the league: you abused your power as commish to give yourself an advantage as a player. Then you posted the note not to even the playing field but to give yourself a get-out-of-jail-with-half-the-money-in-the-pot card. You said yourself that you didn't want to give your strategy away with the note, which is why you weren't specific. The problem is that your strategy as a player was made possible by your abuse of power as the commish. Give all the money back. It doesn't matter whether you would have won anyway--you took the possibility of "anyway" away when you cheated. If you take your proposal of "I keep half the money" to your friends, they are going to be more pissed than they are now. Give it all back. All of it. Appologize. Tell them what you did, and why you did it, but that you are giving them back their money to make amends, because their friendship is more important to you. It is, isn't it?
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Postby Mookie4ever » Sat May 29, 2004 2:33 pm

I just read your posts Kelly and it is clear to me that you were hoping that your friends would not pick up on this glitch that you built in - in other words you made your league different in the hope of capitalizing on their inadvertance.

There is actually a term for this "sharp practice". You can do this only in a cut throat league where money and winning is all that matters - not with friends.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sat May 29, 2004 2:48 pm

I have to agree with the last few posts. Unless your commissioners note said something like this:

"The point system that has been established for the league is different from others you may have used. The system gives a large advantage to teams that have a lot of closers, especially those that have eligibility as both SP and RP. Please keep that in mind as you draft and play."

Then, you really didn't make a good faith effort to act as a fair commisioner. The only way to make it right is to give back all the money or eliminate saves as a category and go by who has the most points in the other categories.
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Postby matmat » Sat May 29, 2004 3:11 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:I
"The point system that has been established for the league is different from others you may have used. The system gives a large advantage to teams that have a lot of closers, especially those that have eligibility as both SP and RP. Please keep that in mind as you draft and play."

yeah... I guess I have to agree now... probably even something like.

"the scoring system for our league is different from standard ones. Please review it and draw your own conclusions as to the value of certain positions. Also, remember that many players are eligible at different positions"

you don't need to spell out your strategy, just point out that there might be some advantages somewhere... they can do their own work, right?
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Postby blankman » Sat May 29, 2004 4:36 pm

Post the EXACT commish note that you made for your league before the draft. That would help us IMO.
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Postby Kelly Gruber » Sat May 29, 2004 5:06 pm

I think we're approaching a solution. I agreed to start a new pool from scratch.

Here's my commissioner's note for whatever it is worth:

Draft: Tuesday March 23, @ 6:45 P.M.
Price: 25 big ones
Prizes: 1st place: 225 bucks (assuming we have 10 people)
2nd place: 25 bucks
-Draft order is set half an hour before the draft at random
-Player eligibility rules: 15 games at a position to qualify for a batter, 3 starts to qaulify as SP, and 5 relief appearences to qualify as RP.
-Check out the point system-I had it last year and it was a good system
-Trades will not go through if a majority veto it (6/10)

Good luck
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Postby Longhorns76 » Sat May 29, 2004 5:12 pm

I'm not the best resourse for information but I can relate to what you did as a player. I'm a much better fantasy football player than baseball (although I like baseball more). My commish just wrote it in the rules that instead of a set limit of running backs and wide recievers are on a starting lineup, he set it up to have up to 4 running backs and one wide receiver and vice versa. He didn't tell anyone about this strategy (it highly favors RB's) and he promtly drafted 4 RB's with his first 4 picks. I read the rules closely and knew of his strategy and since we aren't friends, just co-workers I drafted better and I won anyway but I did feel as if the others in the draft were going to be short handed if they didn't read up as closely as I did. I did feel as if our commish really was out for himself to win it all and knew what he was doing when he set up our league. Nobody complained because it was in the rules and we are all grown ups and they won't let it happen again. But as a player I do think he was trying to be underhanded and sneaky but he didn't have any guilt or any other emotion associated with what he did.

In other words, I do think you were trying to stack the deck in your favor by not discussing the rules with the others in your league before you wrote them out in your rule book. If I got burned by it, shame on me but that doesn't make it right to exploit it without full disclosure.
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Postby twentysix » Sat May 29, 2004 5:33 pm

just figured I'd chime in

you did set up the league that way to give yourself a distinct advantage in the hopes that no one else would figure out the whole SP/RP eligibility thing

unfortunately for you, your plan worked. even if just one other person had the same strategy you could point to him and say to the others "Look at so-and-so, he figured it out, quit whining"

another thing is your league-mates are just figuring out NOW that RP's with SP eligibility are more valuable. they should've realized it the 1st time Graves or Chacon got you points for a save while being in your SP slot.

also, what's stopping them from sending you trade offers for Graves or whoever (assuming you can trade players in your league)

I know why you feel guilty, because they are friends and you don't want them to be mad at you. personally, I don't think you committed any great crime. are any of them complaining about whoever's using Craig Wilson as a Catcher when he doesn't actually play there? I doubt it.
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Postby Knights » Sat May 29, 2004 7:03 pm

When you say that you agreed to start the pool from scratch, do you mean just start the scoring over again or start right from the draft?

The reason I ask is because if it's simply starting the scoring from scratch (ie: keeping all players the same) then you're still benefitting from this issue since you already own most of the SP/RP eligible closers, right?
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