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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:06 am
by Cornbread Maxwell
Careful on your immigration thoughts. As a staunch conservative I proudly present a poem. This is what America stands for.

The New Colossus
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Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch whose flame
Is imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!" cries she with silent lips.

"Give me your tired your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


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Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)


Immigration reform is imminent (as seen by Bush's Temporary Worker Program). Juts make sure this isnt an us v them argument. My family literally came over on the Mayflower, and I wouldnt imagine saying we are better than the last boat of immigrants to show up in NY. Unless you are an American Indian - every single one of us comes from a family that didnt start in America and you can be considered a son or daughter of an immigrant.

As for the argument that they take low skill/low wage jobs from other Americans, you are right - but those jobs are open to whoever wants them. Besides, your wallet is the loudest voice you have - and last I checked, people naturally want the most value for their money.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:12 am
by Lofunzo
I agree that there needs to be some immigration reform. I just don't think that closing the borders is the answer. Most immigrants are good people who add to the diversity of the US.

Teaching them all to drive is another issue. :-D

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:20 pm
by SaintsOfTheDiamond
Lofunzo wrote:I agree that there needs to be some immigration reform. I just don't think that closing the borders is the answer. Most immigrants are good people who add to the diversity of the US.

Teaching them all to drive is another issue. :-D


;-D and ;-D :-D

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:20 am
by Madison
LionsandTigersOhMy wrote:Wont be long and some of these schools in heavily immigrant populated areas will be teaching English as a second language.30 minutes from me is the most heavily populated Arab area in the USA!Go to Seattle and half the signs and things are Japanese.Go to LA and see the Spanish nonsense in the schools.This is America!We speak English.You came to us so you conform to our ways.We dont change it for you!


I have to agree here, and I even put it in a thread somewhere. My son went to kindergarten last year and they taught the kids Spanish! 8-o Now I understand that I'm in Ft. Worth, Texas which isn't that far from Mexico, but the last time I checked, our national language was English. Teaching kindergarteners Spanish (or any language other than English) in this country is completely wrong in my opinion. I'm fed up with having to accomodate people who disrespect our country by not even learning the national language. If I moved to another country, I'd at least have the decency to learn their language. It's frustrating to see Spanish everywhere I turn when I'm in a country where the national language is English!

*end rant* :-D

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:03 am
by Lofunzo
Mad.......Call Ripley. I disagree with you for the first time. :-° First off, we have no official language. I also like that they teach foreign languages earlier if it's for the right reasons. I student taught last year and I noticed that they started earlier. When I was in school, they didn't start until 7th grade but no one took it. Now, they start earlier. I like that. While I agree that anyone that goes to a country should learn the language, we need to make 1 official. ;-)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:29 am
by Madison
Lofunzo wrote:Mad.......Call Ripley. I disagree with you for the first time. :-° First off, we have no official language. I also like that they teach foreign languages earlier if it's for the right reasons. I student taught last year and I noticed that they started earlier. When I was in school, they didn't start until 7th grade but no one took it. Now, they start earlier. I like that. While I agree that anyone that goes to a country should learn the language, we need to make 1 official. ;-)


No prob, but I do feel pretty strongly about this subject. ;-)

Are you really trying to tell me that our national language is not English? 8-o That's a joke, right?

As to teaching earlier, I absolutely hate that our children are forced to learn other languages. It makes zero sense when the majority of them cannot even speak, spell, and use English correctly. Just take a look at the use of (there, they're, and their) here on the boards. It's absolutely ridiculous that kids graduate high school without some common, basic knowledge such as being able to communicate. Yet they waste time forcing the kids to learn someone else's language. Absurd waste of time in my opinion.

I would think that you would at least agree that kindergarten is a ridiculous time to start [read=5 year old kids]. The kids can't even read, write, or spell in English, yet they are teaching them Spanish? What kind of unbelieveable crap is that? It's absurd, appalling, ridiculous, and a complete waste of the child's time in school. I gave the school board a big piece of my mind and they were willing to transfer my son to another school where teaching Spanish to kindergarteners did not take place. Good move by the school. ;-D

Why cater to the immigrants that much? If they want to legally immigrate, fine, no problems here. Learn the language. Do we bend the rest of the country over for them since they can't, won't, or don't learn the language? No way. It needs to stop and it needs to stop now. We definitely do not need to promote it.

Like I said, I feel rather strongly about it. Call it pride to myself and country, or just call it close minded stupidity, but that's the way I feel. ;-)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:45 am
by Lofunzo
Mad.......I might be outdated but here goes. I think that they should start earlier than 7th grade with foreign languages like I had. Maybe kindergarten is too early but 2nd or 3rd grade isn't so bad. I also agree that if you go to a country, you should learn the language of that country. I would never go to Spain and make them speak English. That said, I am serious in that we don't have an official language. At least up until the last few years. Check it out. There is no official language in the U.S. Unless it changed recently, that's the way it is.

I agree that we shouldn't bend over backwards for immigrants but we should allow them in. I would expect that your ancestors were part of the immigration process. Maybe not but probably.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:02 am
by Madison
Lofunzo wrote:I would expect that your ancestors were part of the immigration process. Maybe not but probably.


I'm sure my ancestors came over on boats. I'm white and admit that I have never really traced my family tree. Never saw the need to do it. Anyway, the Indians (or Native Americans to be politically correct) were the first ones here. No disagreement on that one from me.

What I'm getting at is that when the government was set up, the Constitution was written, etc., it was all done in English. That should be respected, not just tossed away because too many people don't learn the National language for whatever reasons. If everything originated in Spanish, then leave English out of the classrooms (except as an elective course). Obviously that didn't happen, so I just feel that everyone in this country should be able to speak the language the country was founded on and is currently governed by.

It's just one of those things that irritate me. Not a huge issue, but one that I'm sick to death of having to deal with on a daily basis. It's not just a bunch of rednecks down here. Lol. :-D

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:09 am
by Lofunzo
Mad.......With you being in Texas, I'm sure that you see this more than me but I believe that we have no official language. Right or wrong but this needs to be fixed before we go making people speak the language. I agree with most of what you say but we need to make English the official language before we enforce rules.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:08 am
by Arlo
As far as I know, Lo's right: the US indeed doesn't have an official language. Proposals for this are introduced pretty much every year (since the early 80s, I believe), but haven't been adopted so far. Then again, I could have missed something...

Madison wrote:Yet they waste time forcing the kids to learn someone else's language. Absurd waste of time in my opinion.

I think you have to look at this from a different angle as well (although I completely agree that politics too often dictates curricula). Education isn't only about learning things that are practical; otherwise, we'd only have about a year and a half of math classes, and never mind all those funky geometry problems or integral calculus. Unless you go on to a career in engineering, science, or the like, you'll never use that knowledge again. Nonetheless, it's good for you, and helps develop a capacity for logic.

It's the same thing with learning languages. Never mind knowing how to order a sandwich if you ever go on vacation in Paris, it's about improving memory, logic, and language skills that will go a long way toward improving your English as well.

Since you mentioned respecting the wishes of those who originally created the government, Jefferson made Latin and Greek a part of the curriculum in the grammar schools he set up, and was pretty vehement on this subject. (Not that Jefferson was always right about everything, of course :-))