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Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:32 pm
by DbacksRback
NikkiSixx wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:I don't think that is quite on this list, but the cash strapped Twins gave 8 years, $184 million to a first-baseman that can't hit more than 15 home runs.

Mauer is one of the greatest hitters of our time. Nobody seemed to care that Wade Boggs didn't hit homers.



Greatest hitters of out time?! Guy will hit around .300, no speed at all, hit 10-15 home runs.

To me his a big name, big contract, nothing great with the bat. I don't watch the twins enough to know about his defense

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:45 pm
by NikkiSixx
DbacksRback wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:I don't think that is quite on this list, but the cash strapped Twins gave 8 years, $184 million to a first-baseman that can't hit more than 15 home runs.

Mauer is one of the greatest hitters of our time. Nobody seemed to care that Wade Boggs didn't hit homers.



Greatest hitters of out time?! Guy will hit around .300, no speed at all, hit 10-15 home runs.

To me his a big name, big contract, nothing great with the bat. I don't watch the twins enough to know about his defense

Not one of the greatest fantasy hitters of our time, but one of the greatest actual hitters... Not many guys have a career average over .320 or a career obp over .400... And this is his first season NOT playing catcher. I don't see how you not call him one of the greatest hitters. And why are you talking about speed? I'm not saying he is one of the greatest runners.


Joe Mauer's career numbers: .322 average, .404 OBP, .467 SLG, .872 OPS
Miguel Cabrera's career numbers: .320 average, .398 OBP, .566 SLG, .965 OPS

Cabrera is the better hitter thanks to the power numbers, but it's not as far off as you would think. But Mauer did it from behind the plate...

Give Mauer some respect, his numbers are pretty close to the career numbers of hall of famer Wade Boggs.

Wade Boggs career numbers: .328 average, .415 OBP, .443 SLG, .858 OPS

Pretty close to Mauer... Did I mention Wade Boggs is in the hall of fame for his bat? Boggs also played a mean 3rd base, but Mauer did it as a catcher.

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:22 pm
by wrveres
GiantsFan14 wrote:
wrveres wrote:Zito.


Image

yeah everybody in the world was shocked that it happened. You, me and Bochy too. I remember giving him praise at the time. dude was pitching out of his mind, but im still not sure it justifies that contract.

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:16 pm
by Skin Blues
NikkiSixx wrote:
DbacksRback wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:Mauer is one of the greatest hitters of our time. Nobody seemed to care that Wade Boggs didn't hit homers.



Greatest hitters of out time?! Guy will hit around .300, no speed at all, hit 10-15 home runs.

To me his a big name, big contract, nothing great with the bat. I don't watch the twins enough to know about his defense

Not one of the greatest fantasy hitters of our time, but one of the greatest actual hitters... Not many guys have a career average over .320 or a career obp over .400... And this is his first season NOT playing catcher. I don't see how you not call him one of the greatest hitters. And why are you talking about speed? I'm not saying he is one of the greatest runners.


Joe Mauer's career numbers: .322 average, .404 OBP, .467 SLG, .872 OPS
Miguel Cabrera's career numbers: .320 average, .398 OBP, .566 SLG, .965 OPS

Cabrera is the better hitter thanks to the power numbers, but it's not as far off as you would think. But Mauer did it from behind the plate...

Give Mauer some respect, his numbers are pretty close to the career numbers of hall of famer Wade Boggs.

Wade Boggs career numbers: .328 average, .415 OBP, .443 SLG, .858 OPS

Pretty close to Mauer... Did I mention Wade Boggs is in the hall of fame for his bat? Boggs also played a mean 3rd base, but Mauer did it as a catcher.

Boggs also played more than twice as many games as Mauer has. Lets see Mauer maintain that slash line for 10 more years, then we can compare him as a hitter to Wade Boggs.

As for comparing Miggy and Mauer, Miggy has about twice as much oWAR in only 1-2 extra seasons. Mauer being a catcher obviously makes a big difference compared to Cabrera being essentially a DH in terms of defensive contribution. But as hitters, they are in two different worlds.

So yeah... really good hitter, but as these contracts usually go, they're paying for his age 20-30 seasons, but only actually getting his age 30-40 seasons. Baseball is weird like that, that you get paid AFTER you've already made the majority of your contributions to the game. With 7 years of team control there's just too much money floating around and nobody to spend it on.

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 pm
by NikkiSixx
Skin Blues wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
DbacksRback wrote:

Greatest hitters of out time?! Guy will hit around .300, no speed at all, hit 10-15 home runs.

To me his a big name, big contract, nothing great with the bat. I don't watch the twins enough to know about his defense

Not one of the greatest fantasy hitters of our time, but one of the greatest actual hitters... Not many guys have a career average over .320 or a career obp over .400... And this is his first season NOT playing catcher. I don't see how you not call him one of the greatest hitters. And why are you talking about speed? I'm not saying he is one of the greatest runners.


Joe Mauer's career numbers: .322 average, .404 OBP, .467 SLG, .872 OPS
Miguel Cabrera's career numbers: .320 average, .398 OBP, .566 SLG, .965 OPS

Cabrera is the better hitter thanks to the power numbers, but it's not as far off as you would think. But Mauer did it from behind the plate...

Give Mauer some respect, his numbers are pretty close to the career numbers of hall of famer Wade Boggs.

Wade Boggs career numbers: .328 average, .415 OBP, .443 SLG, .858 OPS

Pretty close to Mauer... Did I mention Wade Boggs is in the hall of fame for his bat? Boggs also played a mean 3rd base, but Mauer did it as a catcher.

Boggs also played more than twice as many games as Mauer has. Lets see Mauer maintain that slash line for 10 more years, then we can compare him as a hitter to Wade Boggs.

As for comparing Miggy and Mauer, Miggy has about twice as much oWAR in only 1-2 extra seasons. Mauer being a catcher obviously makes a big difference compared to Cabrera being essentially a DH in terms of defensive contribution. But as hitters, they are in two different worlds.

So yeah... really good hitter, but as these contracts usually go, they're paying for his age 20-30 seasons, but only actually getting his age 30-40 seasons. Baseball is weird like that, that you get paid AFTER you've already made the majority of your contributions to the game. With 7 years of team control there's just too much money floating around and nobody to spend it on.

I don't see Mauer falling off as a hitter anytime soon.

Yes, Miggy is clearly the better hitter thanks to his power numbers. Miggy also has about 2000 more plate appearances on top of having better power numbers every year.... Nearly 3 full seasons more. The one knock on Mauer is that he has gotten injured more than you would like out of your star player (that happens to most catchers, but still... Mauer absolutely needs to stay healthy).

When Mauer is active though he is a beast. He's still playing at a high level so I don't see how you can call his contract even remotely bad at this point. I'll take a .322 average and a .404 OBP from my best player, and until he stops performing at that level, I don't see how you can say it was a bad contract extension. Yes, Mauer needs to play at this level for quite a few more years to be Boggs-worthy, but Mauer has a legit chance at being a future hall of famer, possibly first ballot. His name doesn't belong in this thread IMO.

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:31 am
by Skin Blues
Well just because he's a good hitter doesn't make his contract good. Miggy is maybe the best hitter in baseball and signed arguably the worst contract extension of the past decade. Mauer's isn't nearly as bad though, and I wouldn't even mention him among the worst. He's only got 5 years left and could reasonably earn his salary at least for another 1 or 2 years. To have only half of the seasons be over-pays is pretty good as far as these mega contracts go.

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:42 am
by NikkiSixx
Skin Blues wrote:Well just because he's a good hitter doesn't make his contract good. Miggy is maybe the best hitter in baseball and signed arguably the worst contract extension of the past decade. Mauer's isn't nearly as bad though, and I wouldn't even mention him among the worst. He's only got 5 years left and could reasonably earn his salary at least for another 1 or 2 years. To have only half of the seasons be over-pays is pretty good as far as these mega contracts go.

Exactly, I wouldn't even mention his contract among the worst. That was my only point.

Well that and DbacksRback thought I was crazy for mentioning that Mauer is one of the greatest hitters of our time, which he has been.

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:26 pm
by kab21
Mauer, MCab and Pujols aren't the worst contracts imo. Or even close. Overpaid yes, but not close to the worst.

the worst contracts are guys that end up so bad (early in the contract) that you can't even play them. Bay, Wells and Pavano qualify. Hamilton, BJ, Howard and Crawford are headed down this road to providing almost no value during their contracts.

The other category is guys like ARod, Tex, Johan and several others who started out good but basically did nothing in the 2nd half of their contracts. It's possible that players like Mauer, MCab, Pujols, Votto, Cano, Fielder and a long list join them but several of these are likely to be decent players until the end.

Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:34 pm
by lastingsgriller
NikkiSixx wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:I don't think that is quite on this list, but the cash strapped Twins gave 8 years, $184 million to a first-baseman that can't hit more than 15 home runs.

Mauer is one of the greatest hitters of our time. Nobody seemed to care that Wade Boggs didn't hit homers.


Yeah, I don't for sure think that Mauer is overpaid. I just think the team that paid it to him was the stupid part.

I mean, what's worse.. The dodgers taking on Carl Crawfords enormous salary and him being a complete waste, but still having the money to sign Hanley Ramirez and give kershaw the biggest deal ever.. Or, the twins paying that money to a powerless 1st baseman and being completely handicapped when it comes to trying to surround him with anything at all.

Most players that sign these types of deals go to teams with limitless pockets and so their contracts don't have nearly the same negative impact on the team they play for.

Re: Worst Baseball contract in recent history?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:44 pm
by NikkiSixx
lastingsgriller wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:I don't think that is quite on this list, but the cash strapped Twins gave 8 years, $184 million to a first-baseman that can't hit more than 15 home runs.

Mauer is one of the greatest hitters of our time. Nobody seemed to care that Wade Boggs didn't hit homers.


Yeah, I don't for sure think that Mauer is overpaid. I just think the team that paid it to him was the stupid part.

I mean, what's worse.. The dodgers taking on Carl Crawfords enormous salary and him being a complete waste, but still having the money to sign Hanley Ramirez and give kershaw the biggest deal ever.. Or, the twins paying that money to a powerless 1st baseman and being completely handicapped when it comes to trying to surround him with anything at all.

Most players that sign these types of deals go to teams with limitless pockets and so their contracts don't have nearly the same negative impact on the team they play for.

Yeah that's a good point. But I think the Twins were playoff contenders when they signed him, or did they sign him to that extension a couple years after their playoff years?

And Mauer can be just the veteran all-star presence they need if Buxton and Sano can make it up to have an impact in time before Mauer is out of his prime as a hitter.