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What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lately

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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby ayebatter » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:51 pm

wrveres wrote:pussyfacation of pitchers is what it is. if im paying a guy 10-15 million to pitch, im riding him till he dies. screw the innings limits, and the cream will still rise to the top. thats one area where the nfl gets it right.


Too much money = too many leagues = too many teams = too many players = too many guys that should be watching not playing = too many surgeries.

or what WR said.
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby hot4tx » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:22 pm

The increase in TJ surgeries has directly coincided with the elimination of beer consumption in the locker rooms. If you don't agree with that then you don't believe in science. :-]
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby NikkiSixx » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:18 pm

Izenhart wrote:Holding Stras out of the playoffs still boggles my mind.

I hurt my arm when I was 14, rotator cuff tear. Never gained velocity past that age. For me anyway it was overuse and abuse. I think every case has different factors in it.

I hurt my arm as a teenager throwing the baseball (probably from overuse because we played all the time), and I still can't throw the same as I could back then.
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby chargerss24 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:50 pm

I remember reading a book by Bob Feller talking about the differences between how pitchers train today versus yesteryear. It's been quite a while since I've read the book, I gave the signed copy to a friend of mine, but if I remember right, Feller said today's pitchers are too "muscle-bound".
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby converge241 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:35 pm

Was wondering the same thing about second tommy johns being so close in proximity to the first one. Without doing a scientific study it seemed to used to have a higher success rate AND those cases of second tommy johns' would be at least further spaced out.

Look at all the folks now having a second one right after the first sometimes without even a return to the majors

Are we going to be talking about two being more the "norm" or more common and moving towards a state of more people having the dreaded THREE procedures. That's a small list of players currently but in the past the list of "back to back" ones was pretty short. Isringhausen is one of the folks who had three.

From a fantasy perspective you used to be able to properly tell when was appropriate to add and stash someone while out for next year or the right round/price to invest and expect a return reasonable while understand speed comes back before control and to temper immediate results. Of course any pitcher coming back from any procedure can be a crapshoot but there a type of safe pattern to follow for the majority of the pitchers.
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby Quackman » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:15 pm

draft big pitchers over 6'3. They get hurt less I swear. Think their bodies can handle the torque better. Sounds too simple but think back on the most long lasting pitchers, lots and lots of big guys. Not saying its impossible for a small guy to last but I just think with all things created equal (ie mechanics, number of innings, number of pitches) the small pitcher misses more games. Bad mechanics is another issue also,,bad mechanics will take anyone out,,no matter how big or small/ For me, I try (key word try) to draft large pitchers especially in keeper leagues. This year ive been taking madbum crazy early and its a lot about his 6'5 frame.
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby TheTrith » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:30 pm

I wonder if due to medical "advancements" the the procedure is performed a bit differently over the past 3-4 years than it was done prior, adn the result is a much less permanent fix?
Could the main cause be a problem with the technique?
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby daweasle » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:20 pm

I would love to do a little research project on this to see if your statement is true (more UCL tears now a days than back in the day)

Unfortunately I am super busy between work and baseball leagues right now but I am going to try to find some data to support or negate your theory when I get a chance.

I believe:
1. the specialist thing is true (my son plays baseball nearly year round every year since he was 6 or 7) and because I want him to be successful I don't stop him.

2. the muscular thing is very true - look at some of the chubby guys (cc sabathia comes to mind) he's not totally muscle bound and he has been very durable over the years.

3. I think that there have always been alot of injuries to pitchers - throwing a ball 90mph at a specific target 5000 times a year is a very unnatural act. The human body was not designed to do it. BUT I am not so sure there are more of them now then there have always been.

(Keep in mind tommy john surgery has only been around what 35 years or so?) actually the first one was 1974 but there was a couple year period before the next one.

and at first they weren't very successful nowadays they are so good at it that it's very successful.

20 years ago
if a pitcher had a partial UCL tear, he would go on the DL and try to wait for his ligament to mend it self via rest and rehab. That took 4-6 months and it was successful half the time. If not successful - either his career was over or he went to Dr Andrews to get the surgery.)
So a team either lost the guys services for 4-6 months or 1 1/2 years.

Nowadays
with the success rate of tommy john - teams are more apt to pressure pitchers to do the surgery knowing that he will be rehabbing longer but there's probably 80-85% chance he will come back just as good if not better than he was before the surgery.

just my thoughts on the subject - really want to check it out more but don't have time right now.
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby J35J » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:15 pm

daweasle wrote: BUT I am not so sure there are more of them now then there have always been.


I agree with this too...or at least I don't think it's as much of a difference as people make it out to be
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Re: What is causing the increase in Tommy John surgeries lat

Postby TheTrith » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:37 pm

Im not totally convinced that there are more injuries per pitch either.
Whats concerning is the number of players who have had the UCL blow out twice, and have needed a second TJ in recent years. Guys like:

Brian Wilson
Joakim Soria
Corey Luebke
Jarrod Parker
Kyle Drabek
Kris Medlen
Daniel Hudson
Brandon Beachy

all come to mind. Is the ligament failing in the exact same place? Where is the harvested ligament coming from? (i have no idea to be honest - from the players own body, or from a cadaver?) Which surgeons performed the initial procedure?

Seems like a study that MLB front offices would/should be willing to spend a good chunk of money on.
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