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Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:18 pm
by NikkiSixx
At the very least, his defense in centerfield should keep him in the lineup... Whether its batting leadoff, 8th, or anywhere in between. I can't imagine the Reds not wanting his range in the outfield.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:15 pm
by Pogotheostrich
NikkiSixx wrote:At the very least, his defense in centerfield should keep him in the lineup... Whether its batting leadoff, 8th, or anywhere in between. I can't imagine the Reds not wanting his range in the outfield.

Is his defense really that good? I know he has the speed but he has only been playing CF for a year.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:23 pm
by ayebatter
Pogotheostrich wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:At the very least, his defense in centerfield should keep him in the lineup... Whether its batting leadoff, 8th, or anywhere in between. I can't imagine the Reds not wanting his range in the outfield.

Is his defense really that good? I know he has the speed but he has only been playing CF for a year.



Look at it this way if it gets by him he'll get back to wall to pick it up real fast.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:48 pm
by Izenhart
ayebatter wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:At the very least, his defense in centerfield should keep him in the lineup... Whether its batting leadoff, 8th, or anywhere in between. I can't imagine the Reds not wanting his range in the outfield.

Is his defense really that good? I know he has the speed but he has only been playing CF for a year.



Look at it this way if it gets by him he'll get back to wall to pick it up real fast.


and then he'll run it in and get the force play at 1st. B-)

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:08 pm
by NikkiSixx
Pogotheostrich wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:At the very least, his defense in centerfield should keep him in the lineup... Whether its batting leadoff, 8th, or anywhere in between. I can't imagine the Reds not wanting his range in the outfield.

Is his defense really that good? I know he has the speed but he has only been playing CF for a year.

Fundamentally sound? I'm not sure, but if his speed is that special then he can cover more ground than anyone else in the majors.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:13 pm
by GiantsFan14
NikkiSixx wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:At the very least, his defense in centerfield should keep him in the lineup... Whether its batting leadoff, 8th, or anywhere in between. I can't imagine the Reds not wanting his range in the outfield.

Is his defense really that good? I know he has the speed but he has only been playing CF for a year.

Fundamentally sound? I'm not sure, but if his speed is that special then he can cover more ground than anyone else in the majors.


Covering ground also means getting good jumps and taking good routes. Speed can make up for some of that, but pure speed doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna cover as much ground as the elite CFers.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:41 pm
by NikkiSixx
GiantsFan14 wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:Is his defense really that good? I know he has the speed but he has only been playing CF for a year.

Fundamentally sound? I'm not sure, but if his speed is that special then he can cover more ground than anyone else in the majors.


Covering ground also means getting good jumps and taking good routes. Speed can make up for some of that, but pure speed doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna cover as much ground as the elite CFers.

If he has a terrible first step then he wont be able to cover the same ground, I will agree with that. The ball doesn't always have a lot of hang time. If he takes even an average first step he will still be a well above average centerfielder. And if he picks it up and turns out to be a natural centerfielder and takes a great first step then he will probably be #1. I'm not will to bet he will be a natural, and I don think he will the worst at it either (although, you never know given the limited experience). However, I am willing to bet that he will be the best option they have, and with his speed I think he can develop into an elite defensive player by the end of the season, and I think the upside alone will keep him in the lineup.

The bat I don't trust, the legs I do. My opinion is that his defense in centerfield will be good enough to keep him in the lineup even with a subpar bat.


And the way people talk about his speed isn't just your average fast player. It is described as special....lightning fast.....jaw dropping....never seen before in baseball.

If he is truly that fast then it makes me think he will be just fine even with poor fundamentals. If scouts are exaggerating his speed then I don't think he would do fine with poor fundamentals. But then again, poor fundamentals aren't guaranteed.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:04 pm
by jfg
garf112 wrote:
I am buying him. If you hit on him, you win Stolen Bases going away. You could trade any other SBs you have and add more power or pitching if you need it.



You'd still need steals if you're looking for a 1st place finish in the category and since he's a one category player and you can't afford another category killer like him, you probably will have to get those extra steals from guys who are five category players at the beginning of the draft. I think that's my biggest concern about Hamilton, you have to build your team around him and that's not something I want to do with a 5th-6th round pick. I really think he will be the player people are projecting this year with around 75 steals, but those steals end up costing more than just the pick you used to take him.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:09 pm
by Izenhart
jfg wrote:
garf112 wrote:
I am buying him. If you hit on him, you win Stolen Bases going away. You could trade any other SBs you have and add more power or pitching if you need it.



You'd still need steals if you're looking for a 1st place finish in the category and since he's a one category player and you can't afford another category killer like him, you probably will have to get those extra steals from guys who are five category players at the beginning of the draft. I think that's my biggest concern about Hamilton, you have to build your team around him and that's not something I want to do with a 5th-6th round pick. I really think he will be the player people are projecting this year with around 75 steals, but those steals end up costing more than just the pick you used to take him.


Well to be fair whats the difference in Billy Hamilton's 5 category projections VS Starling Marte, who typically goes a round or two before him? Similar value to me.

Re: Billy Hamilton

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:27 pm
by kab21
As a rookie I don't think you should view it as even if he has a .300 OBP. I think .300 OBP is the optimistic projection for his rookie season and just forget about .360 OBP like he had in the minors. He has zero power and he strikes out a lot. I honestly have no idea why MiLB pitchers were walking him. MLB pitchers won't be giving him free passes.

I think some are awfully dismissive how important technique is. Speed helps but many gifted athletes have been defensive trainwrecks as young players. It's likely that he does alright but let's not consider his defense a plus yet. If he is hitting .250/.300/.330 then it might be tough to keep him in the lineup. And there is downside to those numbers. I have had the displeasure of watching Carlos Gomez and Aaron Hicks fall apart offensively as young players.