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Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby Fenris-77 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:58 am

You are so on crack. It's not Cheating Cheaterson, it's Cheating McCheaterson. Jesus. :-b
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby J35J » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:43 am

mweir145 wrote:And Posnanski's story on that project (the article of which isn't working on his website, so I've posted it here):


Good article. ;-D
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby Izenhart » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:39 am

J35J wrote:
mweir145 wrote:And Posnanski's story on that project (the article of which isn't working on his website, so I've posted it here):


Good article. ;-D


Yes it was. I've always found it to be funny how sacred baseball purists are with the game and their stats when there's always been some form of cheating, but also because no baseball park has the same dimentions. The article mentions how Kauffman stadium went from a HR paradise to a graveyard just be moving the fences 10 feet. I think of that and all of what the article says and it just makes Barry Bond's 73 HR season all that much more impressive.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby silverZ » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:00 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Can we get this to 100+ pages? Here I'll start...

"Barry Bonds ruined the sport of baseball. He's a cheating cheaterson and should never be allowed in the Hall of Fame."

And, go! :-)


You don't know that! ;-7
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby AHF » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:44 pm

Deleting because I think it is counterproductive to the conversation.
Last edited by AHF on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby J35J » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:59 pm

AHF wrote:Hey, I am convinced these guys took illegal drugs that actually have no connection to performance enhancement!


You didn't read the article, did you?
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby AHF » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:08 pm

As an aside, I don't think steroids are the only factor in the performance from these athletes but I think it is incredibly naive to think that they don't play a significant factor. Aside of the science demonstrating the physiological advantages as well as training and recovery time advantages, the simple dynamic tells you all you need to know.

(1) The drugs are illegal.

(2) The drugs are banned by sports and expose the user to the risk of lengthy suspensions and/or expulsions from their sport.

(3) Exposure of use threatens the athlete's earning potential and reputation.

(4) Athletes continue to use them - across a wide variety of sports and in spite of the moral, legal, and professional dilemmas they raise.

(5) The list of users includes the very people who have the least to gain and the most to lose if there is no significant advantage (those who are the fastest in the world - Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, etc.), those who are MVP level at their profession (A-Rod, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Jason Giambi, etc.).

This all only makes sense if the performance enhancement is significant.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby AHF » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:14 pm

J35J wrote:
AHF wrote:Hey, I am convinced these guys took illegal drugs that actually have no connection to performance enhancement!


You didn't read the article, did you?


I have read those articles before as well as contrary medical research and conclusions from other researchers.

My personal view on the medical evidence is that the preponderance of evidence on this issue clearly supports the idea that there is a significant performance difference from use of PEDs but that the risks of PED use are grossly overstated and that the PEDs are too often presented as the only factor when they are a significant factor in a larger picture. That said, they are still significant.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby grizfan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:50 pm

This is a bit off topic, but just wanted to give my .02 about what some of these guys have done and how they are being treated.

Back in 1999, I was on a fishing trip with my Dad and Grandpa. We were talking baseball and it was kind of cool to hear about players from different generations. I asked who the greatest player was that they ever saw play. My Grandpa said Aaron, my Dad said Mays, and I said Bonds. That was two years before the 72 HR season and at a time when a lot of players were using.

I think it is terrible how everyone, and especially Bud Selig, just loved the McGwire/Sosa race and what Bonds did, said it was so great for baseball, put it back on the map, etc., and now that they have reaped the benefits, are not recognizing their accomplishments and calling them cheaters. If Selig really didn't know what was going on then he is even dumber than he looks.

In my opinion, the players who have admitted or have been suspected of PEDs are no more cheaters than anyone who has taken greenies or cocaine. It is all performance enhancing. Who knows to what degree. It can be debated but never proven. While your at it though, keep the pitchers out of he HOF who doctored the ball. At least that was against the rules when it was being done.

By the way, I am not a Giants fan and never really liked Bonds, but he is still the best I have ever seen.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby kab21 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:05 pm

PED's don't directly help you hit HR's but they help you recover faster from workouts and games which allow you to workout and train more. That is why a lot of people take legal/illegal PED's. If you workout and train more you will be stronger and be able to hit a few extra HR's.

I really don't have any issues with players using PED's now. They know if they get caught they will be punished and they should know that blood testing is more effective than urine testing.
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