benb18a wrote:Okay, let's take a look at the facts. Braun's WAR? 7.0 His offensive WAR? 6.0 What is 7-6? 1.0
Posey's WAR? 7.2 His offensive WAR? 7.2 What is 7.2-7.2? 0
What was that about Braun being an average outfielder, and Posey being a better than average catcher?
"actual value (not positional relativity) of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense" And I'm done here. The player who deserves to win the MVP will not, and a player who does not, will. /thread
Actual value is highly dependent on position, and just ignoring it would be an incredibly terrible way at determining value. A catcher who puts up similar offensive numbers to a left fielder holds considerably more value. That is a fact, not an opinion.
Catcher defense is incredibly hard to valuate and both UZR and TZ do a pretty poor job of accurately determining it. This is a well known fact. By any metric Posey is an above average catcher and anyone who watched games the Giants plan (whether your a fan or not) will pretty clearly be able to tell that Posey is at the very least a solid fielder behind the plate. He has very good ball-blocking skills, good pitch-framing skills, and a very strong and accurate arm.
Ryan Braun, on the other hand, has been a below average fielder his entire career. His UZR this year show him as slightly above average, but one year UZR doesn't do a great job of accurately determining fielding skills and it's likely he's still below average. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and called him average.
Fielding is still something that is not easy to accurately valuate, especially for catchers. Based on the information we have and pretty much any scouting report you read, it seems pretty obvious that Posey is the superior defender at a much more difficult position. He also put up similar numbers to Braun at a position where it is much more valuable and whether you want to believe that it matters or not is irrelevant, because it clearly does.
You are welcome to have the opinion that Braun should win it, but in no way is it a snub and in no way is he clearly better than Posey unless you're just going to cherry pick stats and ignore where a lot of the value actually comes from. If anything the stats seem to suggest Posey had the more valuable season.