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2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby NZ Eff » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:38 am

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
Swisher is way much better vs righties.


This is absolute nonsense.

Granderson has struggled all of his career against decent left handed pitching. In the past year or so he has hit them better but he still has a career OBP of .296 against south paws.

Swisher has hit righties better this year but his career OBP versus lefties is 60 points higher and last year he destroyed left handed pitching and couldn't hit a lick off righties.

The reason Downs pitched the 8th is because he is the set up guy. He has been since May. Today he couldn't get the job done but it's the first time all year. Mike S. made the right call.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby SpecialFNK » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:11 am

what Granderson has done against LHP in his career is irrelevant. he's changed and improved. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I think it was standing closer to the plate or pitcher.
using career numbers is like saying Jose Bautista is a bench player, because for numerous years early in his career he was.
Granderson 12 vs LHP- .257/.351/.504/.856
Granderson 11 vs LHP- .272/.347/.597/.944

the Angels situation is not like most other teams in baseball. most teams have a closer and then a set up guy. the set up guy only gets saves when the closer is unavailable, usually after the closer has pitched 2-3 days in a row.
how many of Downs saves lately have come after Frieri pitched the day before?
Downs save July 7th. Frieri last pitched July 5, then July 1st.
Downs save July 2nd. Frieri last pitched July 1st, then June 28.
Downs save June 10th. Frieri last pitched June 10th (got the hold), then June 9th. (the set up guy got the save and the closer got the hold?)
even if you go back to May. Downs got the save on May 27th, and Frieri got the hold pitching in that game before Downs.
Downs save May 25th. Frieri last pitched May 23rd, and then May 22nd.

it's been pretty clear to me that Downs has been more than your typical set up guy. coming into last night Downs had been having a great season himself, also not blowing any save opportunities.

at different times this season Scioscia has been using both Downs and Frieri in save opportunities, even after Frieri had shown he could handle closing games.
how many other teams in baseball have their "set up" guy get even close to as many saves the closer? not counting when the closer was unavailable for whatever reason.
Downs has gotten saves in games where Frieri was also available, even games where Frieri pitched in the game before Downs. when does that happen with a closer?

now maybe things change after last night. I don't think they should. 1 game shouldn't change anything. otherwise what's going to happen when Frieri has a similar type bad inning.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby West » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:41 am

STOP. Everyone just stop talking about Downs and Frieri. It's pages and pages of verbal diarrhea. Take it to the PM's, your own thread, take it anywhere but here. Some people still come here for closer information, not a bunch of flaming crap.

Downs and Frieri are owned in every single league I play in. In less competitive leagues, no one is really thinking as deeply into the situation as you all have delved. Good on you all for coming up with a bunch of detailed and subjective information that may or may not help us get into the Scociapath's head. For the rest of the 98% of us, this argument bears no relevance. So in the interest of everyone who reads this thread, I urge you all - SpecialFNK, Syfo Dyas, NZ eff, etc - give me a call when Frieri's arm falls off or Downs jumps off a cliff. Otherwise, just take your posts elsewhere. I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but no one cares anymore.

As for useful closer information, I'd like to get back to talking about speculative adds. I think Wilton Lopez and Glen Perkins may be decent adds right now, as both Capps and Myers may be traded. Parnell is also a good buy if you can trade for him, as I think he will take hold of the closer job now that Francisco is out for an extended period. Any other thoughts?
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby MashinSpuds » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:33 pm

West wrote:I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but no one cares anymore.

Not rude at all. Why people get into statistical right/wrong jabs over frivolous things is mind boggling. Plus, conjuring up such writing and/or vitriol is wasting a perfectly good morning or afternoon spent elsewhere. The interruption was needed, West. Maybe a mod could even cut out those posts and put them in a thread where the poo flinging could continue.

West wrote:As for useful closer information, I'd like to get back to talking about speculative adds. I think Wilton Lopez and Glen Perkins may be decent adds right now, as both Capps and Myers may be traded. Parnell is also a good buy if you can trade for him, as I think he will take hold of the closer job now that Francisco is out for an extended period. Any other thoughts?

I still think that Lyon gets the job in Houston given his experience and decent year. But if he gets traded then yeah, Lopez is a good speculative add. I wouldn't doubt that Capps gets shoveled off as well, so Perkins is a good move as well. I get the feeling that Parnell may go back to a setup role to help assist the Mets for the rest of the season, so getting an experienced closer (Street, Myers, Broxton) might be in their best interest at this point. However, if one can get Parnell cheaply (using the dark cloud of incurring trade doom) then certainly he's worth an add.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby NZ Eff » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:42 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:
now maybe things change after last night. I don't think they should. 1 game shouldn't change anything. otherwise what's going to happen when Frieri has a similar type bad inning.


Of course nothing will change after last night and of course nothing would change if Frieri had a bad game. Downs will remain the 8th inning set up guy and Frieri will continue to be the closer.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby SpecialFNK » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:59 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
SpecialFNK wrote:
now maybe things change after last night. I don't think they should. 1 game shouldn't change anything. otherwise what's going to happen when Frieri has a similar type bad inning.


Of course nothing will change after last night and of course nothing would change if Frieri had a bad game. Downs will remain the 8th inning set up guy and Frieri will continue to be the closer.


no offense. I don't mean this as a negative in any way. but I don't think you've been paying close enough attention to the way Scioscia has been using Frieri AND Downs this season.
you also didn't answer 2 of my questions.
IF Frieri is the closer and Downs is set up. how many other teams in baseball have their "set up" guy get even close to as many saves the closer?
IF Frieri is the closer and Downs is set up. Downs has gotten saves in games where Frieri was also available, even games where Frieri pitched in the game before Downs. when does that happen with a closer? without going to look and research details, I can't imagine any situation where a team users the closer in what would be a save situation game before the set up guy where it's the set up guy who ends up getting the save.

as far as talking about this in a different thread. well we had that, it got locked. sorry.

I also think this is perfectly fine to be talked about in the "closers thread" seeing as how both Frieri and Downs have been getting saves. not meaning to pick out anyone specifically, but "people" think/assume the only one in LA getting saves will be Frieri. in that case someone could trade for Downs really cheap if the other owner sees Frieri as "the guy", and have Downs pick up 5-10 saves in the 2nd half.

I have also tried many times in posts where I have talked about the Angels to also include information about other teams and closer situations so that it's not always Angels stuff coming from me.

if we're talking names in Minnesota, maybe Jared Burton is a guy to keep an eye on. he was also getting saves along with Perkins when Capps was injured.

what are the chances that Brandon Lyon gets to close in Houston if/when Myers is traded? or does Lyon himself get traded? his numbers aren't that different from 2010 when he was closing games. some managers like to have someone with experience.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby Maris09 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:18 pm

SpecialFNK just stop. Multiple people are asking us to stop.

We'll all talk in a month when this situation is clear to all involved.
Last edited by Maris09 on Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby bigh0rt » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:29 pm

Best thing that'll happen to the Cafe today (hopefully) is this thread getting locked, and hopefully all parties involved just leaving this discussion dead in this thread. I cannot express to you as an outside spectator how annoying it is to see the same exact points rehashed ad nausea. It's reaching the point where people don't even want to visit this thread. If people can't bring themselves to not post for the sake of the entire forums, then they're missing the point of this thread in general. It's an everybody issue now. Just quit it.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby snash » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:12 pm

I know that I do not post often. But as a reader of this site for the past 2 seasons, all this talk about Frieri and Down is really putting me and countless of us off. As someone said above, both Frieri and Down are taken in any sort of competitive league. So there is little to no relevance for those of us who does have either player in our team. If you are fortunate enough to have one of them, then let your actions do the talking. If you think Frieri is the closer, then keep him. If you like Down, then drop Frieri.

Enough is enough, folks. This used to be my favorite thread, because there are so much real-time info from all the posters. Nowadays, I am terrified to even open it. :-P It has been a full week since I visited. Daddy needs a brand new car. But daddy needs to keep up with the latest and greatest news on closers too. Can you help...and take your rant elsewhere! X-I
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby NZ Eff » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:39 pm

Craig Kimbrel is rather good.
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