Dan Lambskin wrote:how'd i get brought into this
See what I mean?
teechas didnt teech mi nuttin
My apologies Dan, not sure why I stuck the wrong person in there for quotes.
The Artful Dodger wrote:Maybe it's your district or particular school?
True, school districts (even schools individually) can be very different. The kiddo has been in 3 different districts now (Fort Worth - YUCK!, Arlington - not much better, and now Mansfield - best so far, but still needs improvement). So yes of course, school districts do make a difference and I'd go so far as to say each school is different. But so far based on experience and what I read, there could be vast improvements across the entire country and for the matter of this discussion, tons and tons of teachers that should be fired. I'm all for rewarding the good teachers, I have run across a few of them, and the country definitely needs more of them. Unfortunately when the bad teachers can't get weeded out in a timely manner, a lot of good teachers don't go into the profession.
Neato Torpedo wrote:
I like how you attributed all of my quotes to Dan.
Anyway, the original statement wr made was disagreeing with my statement that I had only one bad teacher. You agreed with him. Maybe you misread what he said, but it's pretty clear that he thought that I had bad teachers which resulted in my warped worldview. Trust me, I got a 33 on the ACT in reading comprehension.
Also, I just recounted year to year and I counted roughly 52 teachers I had from kindergarten to the end of high school. About 40 of them were uninspiring but got the job done (something like 1.5-2 wins above replacement level, in baseball terms), some were excellent (especially given that I was kind of a prick as a kid, but I'll freely attribute that to terrible parenting and poor family structure), and only that one English teacher in sophomore year sticks out as being overly negative to my school experience. And that was probably on my end because I was the one that called his interpretation of eggs idiotic (long story). Yes, I got lucky, but I think that some people have standards for teachers that are unreasonably high. If a child doesn't know how to do long division, then it's up to the teacher to give that information. But if a child doesn't understand the value of homework and studying, that's up to the parents and the parents alone
And I think personal experience of teachers trumps your experience of teachers through your kid. No one likes school and if your son is anything like a normal person, then he's going to hate on his teachers left and right, and as such, determining the quality of his teachers like asking a child if vegetables are good, and if he/she says no, then taking it as truth that vegetables are not good. Until you get to college, you don't actually appreciate the value of a decent teacher. Sometimes not even then.
So I asked you what you think constitutes a bad teacher. You said not updating grades online. That's all you can think of? Easy fix: get a filing cabinet at home and stick all the assignments/tests in there. Bam, problem solved. And besides, even assuming the teacher doesn't physically hand them back quickly (assuming they can do it, assuming they're not horrendously backlogged with hundreds of tests and homework assignments to grade accurately, assuming they're not waiting on other classes to take their tests or hand in their homework, assuming they intend to take the time to take into account the work shown and evidence cited, assuming they don't have any lesson plans to plan out, assuming they don't have other classes to teach, assuming they aren't making themselves available to help students out of class) what's the worst case scenario of not knowing your grade? You assume a bad grade and you study more
. It's the teacher's job to be a teacher 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Sometimes, holy crap, they can't get everything accomplished in 40 hours. And you can't expect them to work more than that, even though most teachers do take assignments home to grade off hours. I think the criteria for being a bad teacher mainly refers to actions or behaviors that stunt the educational development of students or just flat out not teach things.
And you also have to take into account that if your kid has different educational needs than most students, then you can't expect the teacher to run the class in the way your kid needs to. If 5 kids out of 25 don't learn the way the other 20 do, it's unfair to expect the teacher to modify the teaching style based on the needs of those 5. Being one of those 5 for most of my childhood, I have personal experience with that. On many different occasions, my teachers went above and beyond the bounds of their job to meet together and make special conditions for my misbehaving ass. But again, expecting them to do things like that is like taking your car to get fixed and expecting the mechanic to mow your lawn.
If WR's comment was due to your world view, then I missed the inside joke. I was simply agreeing that the rate of bad teachers is a whole lot worse than 1 in 60 (or .5 out of 30, or 1 out of 52, or whatever numbers you are using now).
My expectations on teachers aren't unreasonably high, I hold them to the same standards as I do for anyone. Do the job or be fired. I don't even have to go any further back than my senior year to surpass your .5 bad teachers. My senior English teacher was a drunk. The school investigated when I informed them (either they already knew and were simply looking the other way, or they were idiots) and they gave her the choice of retirement or being fired. One I always chuckle at is sophomore year I had a Spanish teacher that was quitting at the end of the year to sell Mary Kay full time, she already had her pink Cadillac and everything. Know what we did for that whole semester (18 weeks)? Watched movies in Spanish. Didn't even need a pencil that whole semester. Didn't have a single assignment and not one test. Kids literally slept the entire semester and got an "A" in the class. Now while that's awesome and all, it isn't exactly something she should have been paid for doing. So yeah, you got lucky as far as your numbers.
Oddly enough, my kid likes school. He doesn't like math or "work", but he enjoys school and loves to learn when he doesn't think he's doing work (science experiments would be a perfect example of something he absolutely loves to do in school or after - they have "science night" occasionally where they do experiments and learn).
I didn't even get started into what constitutes a bad teacher. I simply pointed out that they can't even keep up with his grades. But go ahead and make excuse after excuse for them not doing their jobs. I mean it's clear from day 1 each year that the teachers will keep those grades updated daily, we get that in written material from the school, so that is part of their job and doing it actually helps them by keeping the parents updated and involved. Yet they don't do it. And no, they give zero assignments back to the kids, so we have no clue what his grades are except for progress reports at the 3 week mark and report cards at the 6 week mark. I remember comparing my graded and returned papers with the teacher's grade book back when I was a youngster, but now it is asking too much to simply enter the grades into a computer? Now that's funny. But keep making excuses for their incompetence, it's what this country has become. We're excuse makers nowadays instead of problem solvers and that's such a wonderful thing we certainly need to foster and nurture that attitude so it continues...
Hey, I had a lot of good teachers, but I had more than my fair share of teachers that didn't deserve their paycheck. Same goes for my kid. As to the discussion that was taking place, the union is a bad thing for schools. Allow schools to terminate the bad teachers on the spot (like practically any other job allows) and there would certainly be an increase in teaching and an influx of good teachers taking those wasted spots. The kids and the country win.
bigh0rt wrote: Mad, when you feel a grade isn't up in a timely fashion, shoot the teacher a friendly e-mail asking what the grade was on whatever assessment it is -- that usually works on me. Even if my grade book isn't totally updated, those who request grades are given grades instantaneously. Reason being it's easy for me to shoot 5 e-mails out with grades than to update 150 students, which is often the case.
While you are one of the good teachers out there it seems, his aren't. Over the last couple of years I've probably emailed 10 different teachers asking how his grades look or asking why he's got 10 assignments listed on their page for the last two weeks and all are zeros when I know he did the work. They don't bother responding. I usually end up having to go to the school and that doesn't accomplish anything either. I generally don't care if I rub someone the wrong way, but I go out of my way to coddle and be polite with his teachers and that's done no good. I think I might just put the "happy face" back in the closet and be myself next year. Can't hurt at this point.
I guess Neato is right, they are too busy to actually do their jobs. Must be nice, I wish I could use that excuse as to why work doesn't get done.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....