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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:53 pm

The drug debate is one heck of a debate, and there are plenty of points to be made on both sides. I'll say a few things here:

We're having a debate on how much one's effect effect others. That's just silly. We used to have a sign in our wrestling room in high school that essentially stated how each individual's actions affected the world. (It had something like, your actions affect the team, the team affects the town, the town effects the area, etc). It's true; your actions affect those around you, which has a ripple effect a few levels out. So to say that you can do drugs as long as you aren't affecting others by using drugs is silly; by using drugs (illegal, legal, or otherwise) you are having some effect on others.

Second, just because alcohol is legal doesn't mean marijuana should be. We tried prohibition in the 20s; it failed miserably. Alcohol is probably legal because of the danger of the black markets that would be set up by making it illegal.

Finally, legalizing drugs isn't going to eliminate the cartels. I don't think the cartels are just going to sit there and say "hmm, our drugs are now legal. We should probably just give on those billions of dollars we were making". It might help to slow the cartels, but it isn't going to stop them.

OK, now carry along, I just wanted to interject those few thoughts.... :-D
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby mweir145 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:00 pm

thejusman1 wrote:Mweir, you are possibly the most ridiculous person I have ever had the displeasure of conversing with here at the Cafe.

That's a true pity. But there's no better time than right now to broaden your knowledge and start your education in the "ridiculous."

There is no reason for me to write a rebuttal to your comments,

And yet you still did anyway. I wonder why. :-B

However, I will try and address some of your more shocking comments.

If you find my comments shocking, it's only because you lack experience and perspective.

1. Athletes ARE role models for young kids, and their actions mold their behavior. You repeatedly refuse to see this, or at least don't understand why they should have this responsibility.

Most professional athletes are overgrown man-children, there's no way they should that kind of responsibility. If they do, that's a failing in our society, not a failing in them.

It comes with the millions of dollars in salary and being in the public spotlight.

They signed up to be athletes, not role models. They shouldn't have any obligation for other people's children.

Parents can only do so much, but if PEDs were embraced and legal in the majors, every young high school athlete would be shooting up in his high school locker room.

The problem with this theory is that PEDs have been embraced in the majors for years already (it's relatively well known by now that baseball players use steroids, greenies, etc), and this isn't happening to that extent.

Much smarter people than you or me recognize this influence as well, and that's the primary reason steroids are so taboo.

Anabolic steroids are taboo because we live in a culture where sheepish individuals believe in everything they hear from the mainstream media without taking time to find out the actual facts.

They set a bad example for the kids. PERIOD. NO ROOM FOR DEBATE.

Setting a bad example for kids isn't a justification for making such drugs illegal for adults, Helen.

But hey, if we're going to ban everything that's a bad example for kids in this world, shouldn't we get rid of alcohol too? It is, after all, a far more harmful drug than anabolic steroids.

2. The fact that you think there should be more PEDs, which would thereby reduce the lifespan of professional athletes,

Depending on what PEDs we're talking about (I'm going to assume we're referring to anabolics still), how would that reduce the lifespan of professional athletes? Do you have any proof/evidence of this effect? Where are the bodies?

MLB isn't just some mindless form of entertainment with disposable players made for your enjoyment.

Professional sports leagues and the Olympics are businesses designed to make money, and they only exist for their entertainment and profit value. This shouldn't be forgotten.

These are real people, with real lives, and to encourage such unhealthy lifestyles is really just sickening.

The pressures for athletes to take drugs already exist, and they're never going to go away. The only way to really level the playing field is to legalize. If an individual has moral misgivings about doing so, nobody is going to force him.

You NEVER hear any respected sports columnist or media voice advocating for MORE steroids in sports, because they recognize that's a dumb@ss stance, reserved for morons who don't care about the personal safeties of the players.

Under my idea, PEDs could be regulated and taken care of by team doctors. In that way, dangerously high levels of usage could be avoided much better than they are currently.

3. Kids are not GROWN ADULTS. That's why they're KIDS.

Yes, I know. That's why I differentiated between them when considering legalizing the drugs.

16 year-olds really shouldn't have to flip on the TV and watch their favorite baseball player publicly acknowledge what PED he's using and why it's been so helpful to him for his 74-homer season.

Back to the role model argument again, are we?

I bet you're one of those people who think all drugs should be legalized and that drug enforcement is a waste of time and money. The people who are going to use illegal drugs will get them one way or another anyway, right? Why bother making it illegal?

Yes, how did you know? :-D

What you fail to understand is that the laws of our society are nothing more than a reflection of our majority values, and the majority disagree with you.

I think others have addressed this, but that doesn't make the majority right. It just makes them the majority (and a tyrannical one at that). Minority rights (especially the freedom to do whatever you want to your own body) should be protected.

They think illegal drugs, whether it be PEDs or crack cocaine, foster a bad culture and should not be tolerated or encouraged. True, we may be fighting a losing battle on some fronts, but it's important to keep our values consistent with our laws.

But if this society is all about protecting people, why the double standard with alcohol and smoking? We allow those people to take risks with their bodies, but not athletes? Why are athletes the only people not allowed the freedom to make that choice (even when it involves their livelihood)?

We don't tolerate PEDs, and we don't tolerate the cheaters who use them.

And yet society tolerates others using PEDs in other aspects in life. Come exam time, I see many students taking amphetamines in order to focus and stay awake for their tests. Are those not performance enhancers in the same way that athletes using steroids? Why is one frowned upon and not the other?

Go rent this instead and jerk off to it, and leave the real baseball to us.

Barry Bonds is the home run champion, and one of the greatest players to ever play the game. He is baseball.
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby GiantsFan14 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:16 pm

mweir145 wrote:Barry Bonds is the home run champion, and one of the greatest players to ever play the game. He is baseball.


qft. i always knew i liked weir.
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby mweir145 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:24 pm

urbanbreez wrote:Yes, but that's the only logical conclusion. Validating it a professional level would put enormous pressure on kids AND parents with young MLB hopefuls. I have no doubt that some parents would be PED pushers. Terrible idea, why cause more problems? Cheaters are gonna cheat. That's fine but the trickle down from what you suggest would be harmful to society. This is why we have laws and don't function in an anarchist environment. Of course, not matter how obvious this is you will never admit it because you the boards largest troll.

Logically, then, you'd be in favor of banning alcohol for adults because of the pressure on kids to be cool, then, right?

Of course, not matter how obvious this is you will never admit it because you the boards largest troll.

I think I'm much more of a social gadfly really. Look at this discussion that's emerged.
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby mweir145 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:27 pm

Coppernob wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
2)effects go far beyond millionaire pros and causes a chain reaction reaching highschool players and probably even younger. You end up with an entire generation of 17 year old kids on growth hormones for no other purpose than to play baseball even though most of them will never get paid for it. There is no way that is helpful to a society or the individual. If you're in favor of that, then he's right, you are a tool.

No, I never said I was in favor of children taking these drugs. That's where parents hopefully come in to stop that. What I'm in favor of is grown adults being able to put whatever they want into their bodies if it doesn't directly harm anyone else.



But this is where your argument falls down. In principal I can't think much wrong in allowing professionals kill themselves if they think they need to do that to bicycle faster, run faster, throw a ball faster but there is not a chance in hell that 95% of kids who "dream" of getting a scholarship, let alone play professional, won't do anything they can to get on the varsity team, get noticed by a scout, etc. Hoping on parents is so delightfully naive.

Oh, I don't think parents can fully stop their children from taking steroids, just as I don't think they can fully stop them from drinking beer. But that doesn't mean I want to go ban alcohol for adults.
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:53 pm

epic weir response is epic.
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby dAnzac » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:55 pm

bigh0rt wrote:this thread got fun.


The Giants winning -> Steroids -> drugs -> plastic surgery - > Mexico -> Texas -> Barry Bonds

Where are we going next? Tokyo? People not paying their taxes? :-?
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 am

dAnzac wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:this thread got fun.


The Giants winning -> Steroids -> drugs -> plastic surgery - > Mexico -> Texas -> Barry Bonds

Where are we going next? Tokyo? People not paying their taxes? :-?

I got lost somewhere between think of the children and kanye's mom
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:28 am

bigh0rt wrote:I got lost somewhere between think of the children and kanye's mom

Yes! I had action on this exact quote showing up in the playoffs thread.
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Re: The Play-Off Thoooouuggghhhttss Thread

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:48 am

your typical weir thread

fools trying to get the last word against weir
they'll never win
he'll keep trollin till yall give up
he always gets his way

it's even worse now with all the weir cheerleaders
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