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Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed May 05, 2010 1:17 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:I've been to soccer games in Europe and they would laugh at this. In Holland there was a DMZ between the fans and the field patrolled by police dogs. The fence had barbed wire on top. In Italy it was easier but the cops looked like they would really hurt you.


Exactly what I think to myself, reading through this thread. In fairness though, you can't compare the atmosphere in Europe from that in the US, especially when it comes to football/soccer. Hooliganism has died down considerably since the turn of the 90's, but problems do arise, especially in continental Europe. Italy, Poland, Turkey, Greece, Russia, and the Balkans, in particular, have massive hooligan problems.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby great gretzky » Wed May 05, 2010 1:44 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:I've been to soccer games in Europe and they would laugh at this. In Holland there was a DMZ between the fans and the field patrolled by police dogs. The fence had barbed wire on top. In Italy it was easier but the cops looked like they would really hurt you.


Exactly what I think to myself, reading through this thread. In fairness though, you can't compare the atmosphere in Europe from that in the US, especially when it comes to football/soccer. Hooliganism has died down considerably since the turn of the 90's, but problems do arise, especially in continental Europe. Italy, Poland, Turkey, Greece, Russia, and the Balkans, in particular, have massive hooligan problems.


Not to mention some ridiculously racist scenarios that would never happen here. Or if they did, it would cause a town hall style meeting and be all over the news cycle. For what its worth, some of the behavior I have seen from DC fans both in the last two Capitals playoff series, and some stuff I have seen at the Nats is absurd. Last night, a couple of buddies and I were watching the game, and there were a good bit of Atlanta fans (happens a lot in DC, tons of other fans given how many families relocate for the govenrment). Guy is there with his girl, and three absolutely wrecked, punk teens were chirping so bad at the couple. Three of them, one dude and his girl. Gets to the point they are repeatedly calling her the C word, blocking them from walking away, gettign inches away from her face and using the C word. Eventually they throw something, and the other guy slams his nachos in his chest and they start swinging. This happened fast enough and deep enoguh security was a bit far away. I'm starting to get annoyed that all these other fanbases are pristine, because they aren't.

PS I hope they keep tasing these jerks and putting on TV. Maybe the point will get across.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby AquaMan2342 » Wed May 05, 2010 2:37 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:It's laughable to me that people who think this was good because it would serve as a deterrent make an asinine argument and somehow blame "the media" when present with direct evidence that it did not, in fact, act as a deterrent.
"Tasing people who run onto the field will deter others from running onto the field."
"Another person at the same stadium where the guy was tased just ran onto the field."
"You win again, Media."


I guess I am just not naive enough to believe that one single incident is or isn't going to fully deter people from taking certain illegal actions overnight. In fact, the immediate aftermath usually spawns idiots like this guy who are trying to make some kind of semi-political statement because they don't agree with enforcement procedures. This disagreement with enforcement procedures is pushed when practically every media outlet in this country turns it into a "should they or shouldn't they" situation because of some skewed statistics that make taser use sound more dangerous than it really is. So you leave enforcement helpless in a way because the PR has already been damaging enough (how many outlets have you seen the picture where the officer has the taser shot lined up while dopey has that dumb look on his face....they make it look like he's pointing a loaded gun at the kid), and they don't want to push it even further so they change what they do in order to cater to outside sources. Why else would they have handled each situation any differently? Both incidences were almost identical.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed May 05, 2010 2:40 pm

great gretzky wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:I've been to soccer games in Europe and they would laugh at this. In Holland there was a DMZ between the fans and the field patrolled by police dogs. The fence had barbed wire on top. In Italy it was easier but the cops looked like they would really hurt you.


Exactly what I think to myself, reading through this thread. In fairness though, you can't compare the atmosphere in Europe from that in the US, especially when it comes to football/soccer. Hooliganism has died down considerably since the turn of the 90's, but problems do arise, especially in continental Europe. Italy, Poland, Turkey, Greece, Russia, and the Balkans, in particular, have massive hooligan problems.


Not to mention some ridiculously racist scenarios that would never happen here.


Yeah, it's not uncommon in some countries to see empty stadiums because a section or a few sections shouted racist chants. Case in point, in Italy, and more recently the case of Mario Balotelli, an Italian of Ghanaian descent and he plays for Inter. Inter played Juventus about a year ago and both teams happen to be fierce rivals. Balotelli being the drama queen that he is, had played a hand in one of Juve's players getting sent off. This caused an uproar with Juve supporters who had gone mental with racist chants. For the next home game Juventus played, the Italian federation punished the club by having their next game played with no fans present. It didn't matter if some Juve fans refrained from chanting or not, they were all punished as a whole. I reckon that would cause a massive uproar in the States if that ever happened, but thankfully, that has never been an issue.

great gretzky wrote:I'm starting to get annoyed that all these other fanbases are pristine, because they aren't.


No, there aren't any innocent fanbases. Every team has its rotten eggs of supporters and that's just the fact. However, there are some clubs with fans who do have a negative association for hooliganism, whether unfair or not. It's just the way it is. Incidents that happen in Philly resonate more with the media because of either the magnitude of past incidents or the frequency of something like those happening or both. It's sort of like how Liverpool fans are perpetually attached to the stigma of Heysel and Hillsborough or Leeds and Millwall fans being more associated to their hooligan firms/fan natures, more so than the teams themselves.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed May 05, 2010 2:55 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote: Why else would they have handled each situation any differently? Both incidences were almost identical.

I've seen dozens of cases of people running onto the field in baseball, football, soccer, and other sports, and this is the only case I've ever seen where someone was tased. The question should be why was the one case handled different from every other similar instance.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby AquaMan2342 » Wed May 05, 2010 3:05 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote: Why else would they have handled each situation any differently? Both incidences were almost identical.

I've seen dozens of cases of people running onto the field in baseball, football, soccer, and other sports, and this is the only case I've ever seen where someone was tased. The question should be why was the one case handled different from every other similar instance.


It's a fair point and my only logical guess can be that stronger measures have been taken in the last couple years to prevent people from going on the field, especially after the incident in Chicago a couple years ago.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby Mookie4ever » Wed May 05, 2010 5:34 pm

Fans yesterday chanted "Tase him!" LOL

Only in Philly.
I heard that someone threw a snowball at him too.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby thedude » Wed May 05, 2010 7:08 pm

double post
Last edited by thedude on Wed May 05, 2010 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby thedude » Wed May 05, 2010 7:14 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote: Why else would they have handled each situation any differently? Both incidences were almost identical.

I've seen dozens of cases of people running onto the field in baseball, football, soccer, and other sports, and this is the only case I've ever seen where someone was tased. The question should be why was the one case handled different from every other similar instance.


I would say it is not an issue of deterance but rather an issue of safety. It is safer to get tasered than it is to be tackled by Matt Chatham or multiple secuirty guards or even tackled by a single secuirty gaurd. It is also safer for the security gaurds who could be injured in the takedown (you will notice that in two of those videos security gaurds ran head-long into each other. Isn't quite possible that they were hurt?).
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Re: Absolutely Awful at a Phillies Game

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed May 05, 2010 8:10 pm

thedude wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote: Why else would they have handled each situation any differently? Both incidences were almost identical.

I've seen dozens of cases of people running onto the field in baseball, football, soccer, and other sports, and this is the only case I've ever seen where someone was tased. The question should be why was the one case handled different from every other similar instance.


I would say it is not an issue of deterance but rather an issue of safety. It is safer to get tasered than it is to be tackled by Matt Chatham or multiple secuirty guards or even tackled by a single secuirty gaurd. It is also safer for the security gaurds who could be injured in the takedown (you will notice that in two of those videos security gaurds ran head-long into each other. Isn't quite possible that they were hurt?).

My gut tells me that being tackled (not necessarily on the outfield grass, but if we're talking generally about police actions) is probably more likely to result in injury, but less likely to result in death.
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