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NL ROTY? Who could it be

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Re: NL ROTY? Who could it be

Postby ayebatter » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:41 pm

swyck wrote:
ayebatter wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:[I don't understand why you would pretend he didn't throw those 21 innings and just throw them out the window. :-?


Because he's not being considered for ROTY for his accomplishments as a relief pitcher. Because he vultured 2 wins against the Nats in 3 innings of relief, I should give him the NL ROTY? Because the 3 losses Hanson has taken were against the Brewers/Dodgers/Phils, and 3 of the 4 Happ has taken were against the Padres/Pirates/Dbacks? Nope, I'm tossing out those relief innings because they mean less to the Phils, than Gregerson's relief innings to the Padres, and Gregerson isn't being considered as a ROTY candidate.


Sense made = none

%-6



And I take it that 'P' on your avatar is for Phillies - I know why you don't understand. ;-)
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Re: NL ROTY? Who could it be

Postby Ender » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:42 am

You can't just throw out innings and a RP inning isn't worth less than a starters in the first place, they just don't get as many. That whole argument is a bit out there.
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Re: NL ROTY? Who could it be

Postby Diamond Miners » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:18 am

Ender wrote:You can't just throw out innings and a RP inning isn't worth less than a starters in the first place, they just don't get as many. That whole argument is a bit out there.

not sure he's saying throw out those innings but instead those 2 wins. After all there's a reason they call them "vultured wins".
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Re: NL ROTY? Who could it be

Postby REBEL5 AC » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:05 pm

Chris Coghlan and don't look back.
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Re: NL ROTY? Who could it be

Postby kab21 » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:11 pm

Diamond Miners wrote:
Ender wrote:You can't just throw out innings and a RP inning isn't worth less than a starters in the first place, they just don't get as many. That whole argument is a bit out there.

not sure he's saying throw out those innings but instead those 2 wins. After all there's a reason they call them "vultured wins".


So will someone go thru and find out how many times a teams offense bailed a SP'er out from getting a loss and got him a 8-6 win? Wins are a useless stat for evaluating pitchers regardless if it's a vultured win or not. The voters will look at it and they won't care whether it was in relief or not. If you wanted to take an advanced sabr look at it then wins wouldn't be a consideration.
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Re: NL ROTY? Who could it be

Postby Diamond Miners » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:05 pm

kab21 wrote:
Diamond Miners wrote:
Ender wrote:You can't just throw out innings and a RP inning isn't worth less than a starters in the first place, they just don't get as many. That whole argument is a bit out there.

not sure he's saying throw out those innings but instead those 2 wins. After all there's a reason they call them "vultured wins".


So will someone go thru and find out how many times a teams offense bailed a SP'er out from getting a loss and got him a 8-6 win? Wins are a useless stat for evaluating pitchers regardless if it's a vultured win or not. The voters will look at it and they won't care whether it was in relief or not. If you wanted to take an advanced sabr look at it then wins wouldn't be a consideration.


agreed, and similarly anybody that chases wins in their fantasy draft can be out of luck by midseason. But it's hard and not a fair statement to say that the voters will or will not throw out relief wins unless they've said it word for word.
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Re: NL ROTY? Who could it be

Postby bazzy_51 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:19 pm

Ender wrote:You can't just throw out innings and a RP inning isn't worth less than a starters in the first place, they just don't get as many. That whole argument is a bit out there.


Agree with this. Also I know it may not be that big of a change for a younger pitcher then an older vet, but Happ deserves more credit then what hes getting for the RP role. Your talking about changing the whole mentality of his pitching style from RP to SP. He starts off in a RP role where your focussed on 1 maybe 2 innings of perfection, then you get tossed into the starting role where rather then just those 1 or maybe 2 innings your planning out a whole game or at least 5-7 innings worth of work. To me that should count for something, I know it never will in the voters eyes, but just on this particular forum in this thread it should mean something.

I do agree to with other people that have said about position players being called a 'second baseman' and then shifting over to play 3B or even take a game out in the outfield, McGee anyone? No we call those players gifted and more valuable to a team because they can play multiple positions, so why are you going to throw out stats from a 'multiple position pitcher'? Again if this is the case then your going to have throw out some of the games and ABs that McGee started or played at 2B because he came up as a 3B.

Its all kind of funny how people sometimes place one player in a category, but when another player comes along who has done the same exact stuff, but yet they get put in a totally different category. Stick to your guns, if Happ's innings are thrown out then so are some of McGee's ABs which inturn leaves Hanson winning the NY ROY correct?
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