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Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby Madison » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:44 pm

JTWood wrote:And there's no law against having it in your system.


*shrug*

No different than a DUI or DWI in my opinion, or no different than the Olympics stripping medals and kicking people out due to positive tests. If it's in your system, you did it. If the laws allowed prosecution for failed drug tests (all drugs, not specifically steroids only), they'd have a better chance at eliminating drugs from society.

Not really a big deal on my end though, I have no desire to argue/discuss the whole thing. I just got a kick out of the comment Peters made. It's a "pot meet kettle" situation that I found entertaining. :-b
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby JTWood » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:54 pm

Madison wrote:
JTWood wrote:And there's no law against having it in your system.


*shrug*

No different than a DUI or DWI in my opinion, or no different than the Olympics stripping medals and kicking people out due to positive tests.

DU/WIs punish you for driving while drunk, not being drunk per se. Even being drunk in public punishes you for being in public, not for being drunk. And baseball now has something akin to the Olympic testing, but they didn't when these tests were taken.
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby Madison » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:41 am

JTWood wrote:
Madison wrote:
JTWood wrote:And there's no law against having it in your system.


*shrug*

No different than a DUI or DWI in my opinion, or no different than the Olympics stripping medals and kicking people out due to positive tests.

DU/WIs punish you for driving while drunk, not being drunk per se. Even being drunk in public punishes you for being in public, not for being drunk. And baseball now has something akin to the Olympic testing, but they didn't when these tests were taken.


Again, baseball's rules don't override the law.

DWI/DUI/PI are all violations of having too much of a legal substance in one's body, and the test is enough proof for conviction.
Yet the same test can't convict someone if it's an illegal substance?

Just plain silly and makes zero sense.
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby JTWood » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:40 pm

All of those crimes are not punishments for having something in your system. They're punishment for doing something with that substance in your system. They'd needed to have had a "Playing Baseball While Roided" law to have grounds to punish them.
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby Madison » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:22 pm

JTWood wrote:All of those crimes are not punishments for having something in your system. They're punishment for doing something with that substance in your system. They'd needed to have had a "Playing Baseball While Roided" law to have grounds to punish them.


Using steroids without a valid prescription is illegal, so failing a steroids test should be more than enough evidence for the law to investigate (and punish). The law isn't required to witness someone drinking too much, the test is enough for proof that they drank too much. So there's no need to have to catch someone sticking a needle into their butt either.
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby JTWood » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:16 pm

Madison wrote:
JTWood wrote:All of those crimes are not punishments for having something in your system. They're punishment for doing something with that substance in your system. They'd needed to have had a "Playing Baseball While Roided" law to have grounds to punish them.


Using steroids without a valid prescription is illegal, so failing a steroids test should be more than enough evidence for the law to investigate (and punish). The law isn't required to witness someone drinking too much, the test is enough for proof that they drank too much. So there's no need to have to catch someone sticking a needle into their butt either.

Owning steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. Having them in your system is not.

If you were right, being drunk at home would be a crime.
You'll never hear of someone being prosecuted for failing a drug test, either, because having them in your system isn't illegal.

They have to prove that you owned the controlled substance.
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby JTWood » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:19 pm

DEA, Title 21, Section 841 wrote:(a) Unlawful acts
Except as authorized by this subchapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally -

(1) to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, a controlled substance; or
(2) to create, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to distribute or dispense, a counterfeit substance.

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/841.htm#a
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby pappymojo » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:34 pm

if you are looking at this strictly from a legal standpoint, in terms of the federal government, does the US federal government have any juristiction over steroids that were ingested by a player while in a different country?

in many ways these players could successfully argue against any charges of breaking the law, just as they could in many cases successfully argue against any charges of breaking baseball's rules.

these players volunteered to the testing on the condition of anomynity (spelling?) at the behest of MLB. MLB then used the results of the tests to successfully update their rules concerning the use of performance enhancing drugs.

also, just because someone is on the list, doesn't necessarily mean that they tested positive for steroids, does it? doesn't it meant that they tested positive for a substance that was under investigation by MLB, including steroids?
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:20 pm

major point involving what was and wasn't illeagal activity.

-some of the substances on the banned substance list that would have caused a player to show up on that list are (outside of baseball) legal over-the-counter substances. the same things that you or I could walk into GNC and purchase and use with no legal ramifications.
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Re: Courts Rule Against Feds in Steroid List Seizure Case

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:01 pm

JTWood wrote:
Madison wrote:
JTWood wrote:All of those crimes are not punishments for having something in your system. They're punishment for doing something with that substance in your system. They'd needed to have had a "Playing Baseball While Roided" law to have grounds to punish them.


Using steroids without a valid prescription is illegal, so failing a steroids test should be more than enough evidence for the law to investigate (and punish). The law isn't required to witness someone drinking too much, the test is enough for proof that they drank too much. So there's no need to have to catch someone sticking a needle into their butt either.

Owning steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. Having them in your system is not.

If you were right, being drunk at home would be a crime.
You'll never hear of someone being prosecuted for failing a drug test, either, because having them in your system isn't illegal.

They have to prove that you owned the controlled substance.

It is my belief that this is 100% correct.
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