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Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:35 pm

hybrid wrote:
slomo007 wrote:But now Tommy "Big Game" Hunter, Derrek Holland, Scott Feldman, and Neftali Feliz are making major impacts. Among those, Feldman wasn't expected to amount to much, so perhaps you can give Maddux credit for his performance thus far.

I think Maddux planned his arrival in Texas very well, he will get the credit for turning the organization's pitching staff around, while I'm guessing most pitching coaches would have similar success given the tools he has to work with at this point. I do think he's a good pitching coach and is deserving of some accolades...but if the Rangers make the playoffs, the talking heads will be ready to anoint him with holy oil and I don't think he really deserves that type of credit.


You're right, I mean he only has Millwood pitching like 2005. And took a no name career RP 2 years ago and turned him into a serviceable starter. And got a rookie w/ 30 total innings above A ball to start pitching like he's been in the majors for a few years. And now some kid named Hunter is pitching better than any season he has had in minors. And looks like he is turning the always disappointing Nippert around... and oh yeah the bullpen is better too. ;-7

I'm just saying, when everything has improved there has to be some common reason. He may have not helped some but it's fairly obvious he has made a sizeable difference over all.

I think Maddux deserves some credit, but I think their success overall right now is a result of an organizational effort. The GM (forgetting his name right now) was on MLB Radio yesterday with Dibble and Jody Mac and he was talking about Nolan Ryan's influence on the pitchers in the organization as well as shifting the focus from trying to outscore everyone 10-8 and getting around to playing good defense and trying to win with solid pitching.
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby slomo007 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:21 pm

RedSoxNation04 wrote:
hybrid wrote:
slomo007 wrote:But now Tommy "Big Game" Hunter, Derrek Holland, Scott Feldman, and Neftali Feliz are making major impacts. Among those, Feldman wasn't expected to amount to much, so perhaps you can give Maddux credit for his performance thus far.

I think Maddux planned his arrival in Texas very well, he will get the credit for turning the organization's pitching staff around, while I'm guessing most pitching coaches would have similar success given the tools he has to work with at this point. I do think he's a good pitching coach and is deserving of some accolades...but if the Rangers make the playoffs, the talking heads will be ready to anoint him with holy oil and I don't think he really deserves that type of credit.


You're right, I mean he only has Millwood pitching like 2005. And took a no name career RP 2 years ago and turned him into a serviceable starter. And got a rookie w/ 30 total innings above A ball to start pitching like he's been in the majors for a few years. And now some kid named Hunter is pitching better than any season he has had in minors. And looks like he is turning the always disappointing Nippert around... and oh yeah the bullpen is better too. ;-7

I'm just saying, when everything has improved there has to be some common reason. He may have not helped some but it's fairly obvious he has made a sizeable difference over all.

I think Maddux deserves some credit, but I think their success overall right now is a result of an organizational effort. The GM (forgetting his name right now) was on MLB Radio yesterday with Dibble and Jody Mac and he was talking about Nolan Ryan's influence on the pitchers in the organization as well as shifting the focus from trying to outscore everyone 10-8 and getting around to playing good defense and trying to win with solid pitching.


Exactly, I think he is a good pitching coach, just not as great as everyone thinks he is. And Millwood was considered a top tier pitcher for several years before coming to Texas and then struggled with injuries and all sorts of other problems. Just because he put it back together again doesn't mean Maddux had anything to do with it....he might have, but I don't think you can assume that.

And the bullpen ERA is rising quickly after the last couple of games, they desperately need to use Neftali Feliz more than they are.
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby Yoda » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:45 pm

He is a fine pitching coach but having the pitching talent never hurts. Just ask Leo Mazzone.
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:01 pm

Also, I would attribute Millwood's "success" this year to luck, not Mike Maddux. Check his peripherals and strand rate....
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:42 pm

Yoda wrote:He is a fine pitching coach but having the pitching talent never hurts. Just ask Leo Mazzone.

Too true!
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby kweiss » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:42 pm

RedSoxNation04 wrote:Exactly, I think he is a good pitching coach, just not as great as everyone thinks he is. And Millwood was considered a top tier pitcher for several years before coming to Texas and then struggled with injuries and all sorts of other problems. Just because he put it back together again doesn't mean Maddux had anything to do with it....he might have, but I don't think you can assume that.

And the bullpen ERA is rising quickly after the last couple of games, they desperately need to use Neftali Feliz more than they are.

I completely disagree. Neftali was pitching 2 innings every other day for a week and a half, and by his last appearance his once 101 mph fastball was down to 93-95. Not good.

Ron Washington is already doing his best to go Dusty Baker on Feliz, you guys don't need to be encouraging him.
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby kweiss » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:46 pm

I tend to think Maddux gets a little too much credit.

He's obviously doing a good job, but half of the pitchers on this team weren't even on the opening day roster. Not sure how much credit he can for "turning it around" when turning it around actually means just ditching the losers and getting a whole new staff.
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:17 pm

kweiss wrote:
RedSoxNation04 wrote:Exactly, I think he is a good pitching coach, just not as great as everyone thinks he is. And Millwood was considered a top tier pitcher for several years before coming to Texas and then struggled with injuries and all sorts of other problems. Just because he put it back together again doesn't mean Maddux had anything to do with it....he might have, but I don't think you can assume that.

And the bullpen ERA is rising quickly after the last couple of games, they desperately need to use Neftali Feliz more than they are.

I completely disagree. Neftali was pitching 2 innings every other day for a week and a half, and by his last appearance his once 101 mph fastball was down to 93-95. Not good.

Ron Washington is already doing his best to go Dusty Baker on Feliz, you guys don't need to be encouraging him.

I think you're trying to quote slomo here...
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby slomo007 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:18 am

kweiss wrote:
RedSoxNation04 wrote:Exactly, I think he is a good pitching coach, just not as great as everyone thinks he is. And Millwood was considered a top tier pitcher for several years before coming to Texas and then struggled with injuries and all sorts of other problems. Just because he put it back together again doesn't mean Maddux had anything to do with it....he might have, but I don't think you can assume that.

And the bullpen ERA is rising quickly after the last couple of games, they desperately need to use Neftali Feliz more than they are.

I completely disagree. Neftali was pitching 2 innings every other day for a week and a half, and by his last appearance his once 101 mph fastball was down to 93-95. Not good.

Ron Washington is already doing his best to go Dusty Baker on Feliz, you guys don't need to be encouraging him.


Right, that came out wrong. I meant that they need to use Feliz more than they are, but I realize they should not use him more than they are because they need to protect him. They don't have a solid bullpen at all.
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Re: Mike Maddux: Pitching Coach Extraordinaire?

Postby Madison » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:26 am

slomo007 wrote:They don't have a solid bullpen at all.


:-?

Do you mean the bullpen isn't deep? I'd agree with that, but for a "typical" game, the bullpen isn't bad and a whole lot better than what we're used to.

Frankie: 3.34 ERA (1.03 WHIP, so the ERA is a bit higher than it should be)
C.J.: 3.05 ERA
O'Day: 1.75 ERA
Neftali: 0.63 ERA

Grilli/Jennings/Guardado are preventing the bullpen from being considered deep, but for the most part there really isn't a problem in the bullpen.


Anyway, as to Mike Maddux, as long as Nolan Ryan's influence ("shut up and pitch") is included, then yes, the two of them have done wonders with the pitching staff this year. Very happy Ranger fan, regardless of if we make the playoffs or not this year. Just nice to see a glimmer of hope that we're finally (!) pitching well.
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