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Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby dream_017 » Wed May 27, 2009 11:35 am

acsguitar wrote:
Tavish wrote:
dream_017 wrote:I didn't realize laws were only for wartime and not everyday life, my bad :-/

As much as I've wanted to, I've been able to resist the temptation to waterboard my children for not doing their chores. Is that what you meant?


He's trying to set up an argument that because I speed and sometimes partake in cutting the tag off of my mattress that its ok to break international law involving torture. Not sure they are comparable but hey

I guess some are real laws and some are not so real laws. I forget, who gets to decide which ones are the real ones?
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby AussieDodger » Wed May 27, 2009 11:44 am

Tavish wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:If my president had to electrocute some testicles or whatever to legitimately save us, I would give him the thumbs up. ;-D

Not to push the example too far but we are talking extreme circumstances. What if the president decided the only way to survive was to destroy a portion of the population that was a threat to the welfare of the nation?


I was talking about enemies from the outside.
I don't think anybody will be agreeing to killing your own people. :-t
I'm sure there are other ways to fix a (far-fetched) problem like that.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Metroid » Wed May 27, 2009 12:14 pm

I actually recently wrote a short(somewhat thrown together)paper on torture for my writing class. Some things I touched on...

-Torture is inhumane, immoral, and unethical.

-Torture itself is terrorism, if we as Americans torture we become terrorists.

-Torture has not even proven to have provided any useful information.

-Allowing the use of torture, even under severe circumstances, is like opening Pandora's box.

-Torture only strengthens the resolve of your enemy and his will to fight.

If anyone want's to read the full paper I'd be happy to post it. It isn't very long, or very good but what evs. :-D
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Tavish » Wed May 27, 2009 12:31 pm

AussieDodger wrote:
Tavish wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:If my president had to electrocute some testicles or whatever to legitimately save us, I would give him the thumbs up. ;-D

Not to push the example too far but we are talking extreme circumstances. What if the president decided the only way to survive was to destroy a portion of the population that was a threat to the welfare of the nation?


I was talking about enemies from the outside.
I don't think anybody will be agreeing to killing your own people. :-t
I'm sure there are other ways to fix a (far-fetched) problem like that.

What's the difference between enemies from the outside vs internal enemies though when it comes to survival. It all sort of goes to the point I was making about survival at what cost. There has to be some sort of line of moral decency a society can not cross before it isn't worth protecting anymore. Secretive torture of possible suspects treads close to a very thin line which is why I'm not surprised at all there has been so much outrage in the American public over it.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby TheRock » Wed May 27, 2009 12:31 pm

Well according to some, schoolyard bullying is also torture.

My bully’s preferred method of torture was name calling and public humiliation.


So now if we hurl insults at captured terrorists we're as bad as they are? For the love...

Just to make sure I'm understanding, if we capture suspected terrorists we may pour some water over their heads. This method may well have provided intel that has stopped attacks and saved lives. We may not know for sure as I hope that information stays classified. If one of our soldiers or contractors or journalists is captured, we don't know the full extent of what they will endure, but we know it ends with a beheading. And you're more upset about which of those? And you see the two as even remotely comparable?
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby acsguitar » Wed May 27, 2009 12:43 pm

TheRock wrote:Well according to some, schoolyard bullying is also torture.

My bully’s preferred method of torture was name calling and public humiliation.


So now if we hurl insults at captured terrorists we're as bad as they are? For the love...

Just to make sure I'm understanding, if we capture suspected terrorists we may pour some water over their heads. This method may well have provided intel that has stopped attacks and saved lives. We may not know for sure as I hope that information stays classified. If one of our soldiers or contractors or journalists is captured, we don't know the full extent of what they will endure, but we know it ends with a beheading. And you're more upset about which of those? And you see the two as even remotely comparable?


Right well we get back at them for the beheadings by dropping daisy cutter bombs on their schools
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed May 27, 2009 1:00 pm

TheRock wrote:Just to make sure I'm understanding, if we capture suspected terrorists we may pour some water over their heads. This method may well have provided intel that has stopped attacks and saved lives. We may not know for sure as I hope that information stays classified. If one of our soldiers or contractors or journalists is captured, we don't know the full extent of what they will endure, but we know it ends with a beheading. And you're more upset about which of those? And you see the two as even remotely comparable?

This is a false dichotomy. We don't have to decide between one or the other, both are wrong. Nobody in this thread is saying that it's okay for others to torture and kill Americans. The difference is, I don't have a voice in al Qaeda and those acts aren't being committed in my name. I do, theoretically, have a voice in how the US treats it's captives. It's not that I'm "more upset" about the US waterboarding captives than I am about US prisoners being tortured and killed, it's that I can't personaly do anything to stop the latter.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby knapplc » Wed May 27, 2009 2:47 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:It's not that I'm "more upset" about the US waterboarding captives than I am about US prisoners being tortured and killed, it's that I can't personaly do anything to stop the latter.

You say this, and yet I don't remember even once hearing you discuss your application into Al Qaeda. I don't think you've really tried.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed May 27, 2009 2:51 pm

There's also the fact that if we continue to torture people, the countries from which said people originate will hate us even more, and that will put us even more at risk.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby acsguitar » Wed May 27, 2009 2:54 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:There's also the fact that if we continue to torture people, the countries from which said people originate will hate us even more, and that will put us even more at risk.



Exactly...publicizing torture is a great recruiting tool. Releasing pics/vids will add fuel to the fire
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