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Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby RugbyD » Wed May 27, 2009 10:26 am

jfg wrote:That makes more sense. If you choose to get into the business of war rules don't exist no matter what our international law says. I expect our enemies to break every rule in the book and I don't hold it against us for breaking the rules in return. Most importantly I expect our leaders to do everything possible to avoid war at all costs, and I don't think that has happened in the recent past nor do I think that it is happening right now.

Varies depending on the enemy. Muslims and WW2 Japan operated one way, traditional European enemies operated very differently.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby AussieDodger » Wed May 27, 2009 10:28 am

StlSluggers wrote:I understand the argument that we should play by the rules because we're better, but it does need to be stated that in the 90s, two Chinese colonels issued a paper basically saying that the easiest way to take down America would be to employ non-state entities to engage the U.S. in ways that went against our principles/morals.


This.


Eventually a bad guy will come along dirty and hardcore enough, and you guys and your tree-hugger "morals" mates will be toast. :-o
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby acsguitar » Wed May 27, 2009 11:01 am

Wow no name calling yet. Impressive.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Tavish » Wed May 27, 2009 11:03 am

AussieDodger wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:I understand the argument that we should play by the rules because we're better, but it does need to be stated that in the 90s, two Chinese colonels issued a paper basically saying that the easiest way to take down America would be to employ non-state entities to engage the U.S. in ways that went against our principles/morals.


This.


Eventually a bad guy will come along dirty and hardcore enough, and you guys and your tree-hugger "morals" mates will be toast. :-o

If that happens then so be it. If America can't survive with its most basic decency intact, what's the point?
Bury me a Royal.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby knapplc » Wed May 27, 2009 11:06 am

AussieDodger wrote:Eventually a bad guy will come along dirty and hardcore enough, and you guys and your tree-hugger "morals" mates will be toast. :-o

Every empire falls, from Egypt to Babylon to Rome to the Ottomans to the Russians to Hitler. History is inflexible that way. Our current level of civilization will pass, and something else will take its place, whether that be chaos (barbarians bashing down our gates) or a better way of government being adopted.

Every country has "tree huggers" and "morals mates," including New Zealand and Australia, and every country will fall, including New Zealand and Australia, as will Iran, North Korea, the US, England, Germany, etc. The fact that America has "tree huggers" and "morals mates" makes them no more nor less prone to the inevitabilities of time. The Soviet Union didn't suffer from "tree huggers" and "morals mates," yet look where they are now.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby AussieDodger » Wed May 27, 2009 11:07 am

Tavish wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:I understand the argument that we should play by the rules because we're better, but it does need to be stated that in the 90s, two Chinese colonels issued a paper basically saying that the easiest way to take down America would be to employ non-state entities to engage the U.S. in ways that went against our principles/morals.


This.


Eventually a bad guy will come along dirty and hardcore enough, and you guys and your tree-hugger "morals" mates will be toast. :-o

If that happens then so be it. If America can't survive with its most basic decency intact, what's the point?


Really? Wow. 8-o


For me (in extreme circumstances you understand):
Survival >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morals

If my president had to electrocute some testicles or whatever to legitimately save us, I would give him the thumbs up. ;-D
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby bigh0rt » Wed May 27, 2009 11:13 am

Tavish wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:I understand the argument that we should play by the rules because we're better, but it does need to be stated that in the 90s, two Chinese colonels issued a paper basically saying that the easiest way to take down America would be to employ non-state entities to engage the U.S. in ways that went against our principles/morals.


This.


Eventually a bad guy will come along dirty and hardcore enough, and you guys and your tree-hugger "morals" mates will be toast. :-o

If that happens then so be it. If America can't survive with its most basic decency intact, what's the point?

This.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby acsguitar » Wed May 27, 2009 11:13 am

Tavish wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:I understand the argument that we should play by the rules because we're better, but it does need to be stated that in the 90s, two Chinese colonels issued a paper basically saying that the easiest way to take down America would be to employ non-state entities to engage the U.S. in ways that went against our principles/morals.


This.


Eventually a bad guy will come along dirty and hardcore enough, and you guys and your tree-hugger "morals" mates will be toast. :-o

If that happens then so be it. If America can't survive with its most basic decency intact, what's the point?


Agreed.
We DON'T torture because A: It's Immoral B: It's Illegal C: We execute people for it

Waterboarding IS torture. It also DOESN'T work.

As for baddies attacking america. Every country has enemies throughout history. We pretend that we live in some utopian society. We don't. 9/11 was tragic but it was more of a failure of intelligence and action then anything else. 3,000 Dead Americans has literally turned the world upside down. How many people have died due to genocide in africa? The war on TERROR! ?!? !O!INJ!)(! is really just a revenge motive by our country for an act that was despicable but not unlike what we've done to other countries.

If there are no rules in war then you have to expect attacks on us when we regularly try to control other countries. We are constantly at war be in financial, policital, or military based. Yet we are surprised when a group of people, many uneducated and impoverished, try to strike back! Those animals!! Why don't they just sit back and let their lives be controlled by the US how dare they not submit to our industrial power.

As long as the US is at WAR with the rest of the world then people will be at war with us. You corner a wounded animal and don't be surprised if you get bit.

Btw I don't love America. Unquestioned patriotism is dangerous. I like my country. I am not blind to it's problems. I stay here because this is all I know. When my parents are gone I may just move to the Caribbean and go fishing.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby AussieDodger » Wed May 27, 2009 11:14 am

knapplc wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:Eventually a bad guy will come along dirty and hardcore enough, and you guys and your tree-hugger "morals" mates will be toast. :-o

Every empire falls, from Egypt to Babylon to Rome to the Ottomans to the Russians to Hitler. History is inflexible that way. Our current level of civilization will pass, and something else will take its place, whether that be chaos (barbarians bashing down our gates) or a better way of government being adopted.


That's what I was getting at ;-D
If you really want to survive as a "top power" you have to keep that edge of barbaric-ness that a lot of powers throughout history lost.



knapplc wrote:Every country has "tree huggers" and "morals mates," including New Zealand and Australia, and every country will fall, including New Zealand and Australia, as will Iran, North Korea, the US, England, Germany, etc. The fact that America has "tree huggers" and "morals mates" makes them no more nor less prone to the inevitabilities of time. The Soviet Union didn't suffer from "tree huggers" and "morals mates," yet look where they are now.


I'm talking about the ones who put "values" and "morals" ahead of doing the right thing.
New Zealand is riddled with them. Ridiculous. Australia not so much, that's one reason why I live here :-D ;-)
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Tavish » Wed May 27, 2009 11:15 am

AussieDodger wrote:If my president had to electrocute some testicles or whatever to legitimately save us, I would give him the thumbs up. ;-D

Not to push the example too far but we are talking extreme circumstances. What if the president decided the only way to survive was to destroy a portion of the population that was a threat to the welfare of the nation? I'm not at all saying we have to be a nation that kisses our enemies and invites them over for tea in order to make them love us. But the concept of no morals is as disgusting to me as the other extreme.
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