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Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby Ender » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:00 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:Actually, the FIP formula most commonly used right now is Image



Which is why you use xFIP because that doesn't correct for HR/FB which is a huge source of luck. Of course xFIP isn't perfect either since you would want to regress things towards career norms, but as a quick fix it isn't too bad.
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby wake » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:00 pm

It might not be that bad to be Cliff Lee after all. Greinke has still been a very good pitcher, but since this thread was made, Lee has probably been better than he was last season.

When this thread was started-

Greinke- 6-0, 0.40 ERA, 0.84 WHIP
Lee- 1-4, 3.92 ERA, 1.54 WHIP

After the thread was started-

Greinke- 5-7, 3.37 ERA, 1.24 WHIP
Lee- 9-5, 2.40 ERA, 1.11 WHIP
Image
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby mweir145 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:07 pm

A move to the NL can do wonders for a pitcher. Ask CC Sabathia.
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby markj11 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:19 am

mweir145 wrote:A move to the NL can do wonders for a pitcher. Ask CC Sabathia.


Lee's numbers the last two years against BOS, TB, TOR, and NYY: 78IP 16ER 1.84ERA
vs. TOR in 2008: 17IP OER.
I ain't askin' nobody for nothin, If I can't get it on my own. - Charlie Daniels
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby Yoda » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:20 am

mweir145 wrote:A move to the NL can do wonders for a pitcher. Ask CC Sabathia.


League change, in general, favors pitchers.
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby activechamp2006 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:06 pm

mweir145 wrote:A move to the NL can do wonders for a pitcher. Ask CC Sabathia.


The main reason is he's moving to a league where batters have rarely seen him pitch.
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:41 pm

mweir145 wrote:A move to the NL can do wonders for a pitcher. Ask CC Sabathia.

Going the other way didn't really seem to have an impact on Pedro Martinez.
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby thejusman1 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:06 pm

More like Cliff Lee is no Greinke :-°
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby mweir145 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:23 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
mweir145 wrote:A move to the NL can do wonders for a pitcher. Ask CC Sabathia.

Going the other way didn't really seem to have an impact on Pedro Martinez.

Sure it did...a 3.90 ERA in 2004 changed to a 2.82 ERA in 2005. And then he got hurt.
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Re: Greinke is NO Cliff Lee!!!!

Postby mweir145 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:26 pm

Yoda wrote:
mweir145 wrote:A move to the NL can do wonders for a pitcher. Ask CC Sabathia.


League change, in general, favors pitchers.


Did you miss this article from last month?

Dave Cameron wrote: A lot of the "why isn't this guy on the list?" questions came from fans of National League teams with good-but-not-great young pitchers. Yovanni Gallardo, Adam Wainwright, Matt Cain, and Jordan Zimmermann are all valuable assets, but trying to make an argument for them based on their non-league adjusted numbers simply doesn't work. Put simply, the National League is vastly inferior to the AL right now, and the lack of a DH allows for pitchers who pitch in the senior circuit to post superficially better numbers than their AL peers. Simply put, you stick a guy like Chamberlain in the NL, and he'd look like Cy Young. Sorry, NL fans, but your pitchers aren't as good as you think.


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... alue-recap
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