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Are Steroids Unethical?

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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Amazinz » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:03 pm

great gretzky wrote:I suggest you take an ethics course.

You're being presumptious.

great gretzky wrote:and you can be a moderator

Do not throw this in my face. I take it as well as I give it and have never tried to lean on you with my 'Moderator' status.

The tone was intentional.
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Amazinz » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:06 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:"Breaking the law is unethical" is saying law is ethics. It can't get any more clear(ly wrong) than that.

No it is not. You're too busy trying to be right to even think. If I said breaking the social contract was unethical would that mean I am saying the social contract is ethics? No, of course not.
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:26 pm

Arrrrgggggghhhhh! Yes you would! If breaking the social contract is unethical. Then that means that following the social contract (i.e. never breaking it) is ethical. Therefore, in your mind they are synonymous.

Or maybe figuring out your circular logic is outside of my ability to "think".

Sorry.
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:29 pm

Yoda wrote:They are illegal and against the rules. So yes, it is unethical to use them.

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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:30 pm

The OP wanted some advice for a school assignment, not a spark for vicious, cutthroat steroids debate #352. :-b
Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
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Rocinante2: lmao
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:39 pm

Amazinz: Rule #1 of any philosophical debate: just because it is so doesn't mean it ought to be so. In all the philosophy classes I took this was pounded into my head. The consideration of law is a pragmatic approach to an individual's actions toward himself and his own future but it's largely unrelated to ethics.

Amazinz wrote:Breaking the law is unethical. This is not faulty logic. This is not open to debate....except in the cases where the breaking of the law is an ethical act.

lol at this though
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Amazinz » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:49 pm

I do not mean to say that marijuana/steroids should be illegal just that while they are illegal we have an ethical responsibility to adhere to the law.
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby great gretzky » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:04 pm

Amazinz wrote:I do not mean to say that marijuana/steroids should be illegal just that while they are illegal we have an ethical responsibility to adhere to the law.


No, you are fundamentally wrong on this. Ethics and the law are not intertwined like that. You do not have by defintion have an ethical anything as it pertains to the law. You can have something be both, but they aren't necessarily so. I don't know how many times people can repeat this. Realistically, for those who have actually studied ethics, philosophy and had a healthy diet of core humanities, you may as well be arguing 2 + 2 =6. Your claims just aren't accurate.

You have an ethical responsibility to not murder, rape, steal. But it's also in society's interest to have those things punishable by law. Other things aren't crystal clear and that's the point. Sometimes, you have an ethical charge to break the law, sometimes breaking the law is ethics neutral, and other times the law and ethics overlap.

You only have an ethical responsibility to adhere to laws that are just. This is why just because plebiscite says that gay marriage should be against the law, its not necessarily ethical to pass said law and adhere to it.

As for pot, considering all of the arguments, it is perfectly reasonable for people to believe it is an unjust law and decide not to honor it. Your ethical code isn't defined to you by the law. I mean for all intents and purposes most of us had no choice of where we were born, have no real choice to move other than Canada or extended process, and have no real choice to change the law, despite what we want, or despite what is fair. Tell me how following this law, that was unfairly arrived at, debate of which is unfairly censored because drug legalization is taboo for candidates, despite the fact that we know the past three presidents have done them, is unethical? I think its more unethical that presidents who have done drugs, made light of it, are still prosecuting a drug war when it really should be about personal choice.

Point being aside from the rant, is it is well established by philosophers, theologians, lawyers and heads of state for hundreds and hundreds of years that these things are different and require different handling. But they are not equatable, and they are not the same. they dovetail sometimes, but more often than not, they are independent.

Since they are separate, the two entities by definition can't be included in such statments as "we have an ethical responsibility to uphold the law."

I think you are confusing ethics with civics, and again those things are two different things. We have a legal and civic responsibility, we don't have an ethical responsibility, except for those cases where ethics and law cover the issue. And when in doubt, your ethical code is the final arbiter.

Like most have said, you really need to familiarize yourself more with these topics, because this is territory that has long been argued and long since settled with people much smarter and revered than any of us.
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:07 pm

Amazinz wrote:I do not mean to say that marijuana/steroids should be illegal just that while they are illegal we have an ethical responsibility to adhere to the law.


Like playing in fantasy leagues for money and NCAA pools and driving over 55 on the highway and coming to a complete stop at a stop sign at the end of empty road and not getting blown in like 15 states, right? Since they are all illegal, it's unethical to partake?
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Re: Are Steroids Unethical?

Postby Metroid » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:13 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:The OP wanted some advice for a school assignment, not a spark for vicious, cutthroat steroids debate #352. :-b

They're not debating steroids they're debating weed and whether it's use is unethical man...where you been? :-D

I have nothing to add but would just like to say that this has been an informative and interesting read....and keep on keeping it civil fellas. ;-D
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