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It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:12 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:
Polar Bear wrote:... Every religion has their extremists

Exactly. Religion is to blame.

Is this a serious post?

Probably not the right thread (or even forum) to discuss whether religion has been a net negative for humankind or not.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby AquaMan2342 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:15 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:In terms of the "I've never heard a devout liberal address 'what would they do to handle the terrorism issue'".

I've never heard a devout Republican answer the "what did Iraq have to do with terrorism" question.


Just because I am a conservative (or social-fascist as you would say :-b) doesn't mean I don't think Iraq was a mistake. Do you frequent Digg? I am assuming you do.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby AquaMan2342 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:17 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:
Polar Bear wrote:... Every religion has their extremists

Exactly. Religion is to blame.

Is this a serious post?


His av is an intentional mockery of organized religion, what do you expect?
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:19 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:In terms of the "I've never heard a devout liberal address 'what would they do to handle the terrorism issue'".

I've never heard a devout Republican answer the "what did Iraq have to do with terrorism" question.


Just because I am a conservative (or social-fascist as you would say :-b) doesn't mean I don't think Iraq was a mistake. Do you frequent Digg? I am assuming you do.

No, I don't frequent digg. I've heard of it, but don't know anything about. Kind of like Twitter. Not a clue what that actually is.

"conservative" does not equal "social-fascist". If you are calling yourself a conservative - yet are also looking to limit the personal freedoms of people through banning gay marriage, irrational drug laws, and other "government knows what's best for you and needs to protect you from yourself even though you are causing absolutely no harm to anyone else", then you have re-defined the term "conservative". Because that's not what it means.

I would call myself a conservative.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:26 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:Exactly. Religion is to blame.

Is this a serious post?


His av is an intentional mockery of organized religion, what do you expect?

No idea what it is, I thought it was some kind of sexual caricature.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:29 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:I may be wrong, but isn't that specific order about foreigners who've been detained? As far as I'm concerned, they don't have any rights and our Constitution doesn't protect them. I'm more concerned about my personal Constitutional rights.

I believe those are the rules that apply to "enemy combatants" which I also believe the Bush administration was a label they believed could stick on a United States citizen, so it does apply to you.

The worst of the garbage, though, was dumped just before Obama took office.
The reasoning in 10 opinions that said the president had unchecked power to detain, interrogate and prosecute terrorism suspects, ignore the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, suspend international treaties and flout the Fourth Amendment in domestic military activities "should not be treated as authoritative for any purpose," wrote Steven Bradbury, Bush's acting OLC chief in his second term, in internal memos on Oct. 6, 2008 and Jan. 15, 2009.

So I don't know if you want to classify it as Obama giving you your rights back or Bush giving you your rights back or whoever got elected following Bush giving you your rights back or whatever, but the short answer is that those opinions are now ignored and look unlikely to be restored under Obama. Take that as you will.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:34 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:Yeah, this car collisions = terrorist attack analogy is retarded. One is an ACCIDENT. One is ON PURPOSE. Therefore, the methods you would undertake to prevent either are completely different.

It's only retarded if you try to compare them on the methods to prevent them. At a broader social level, government must allocate its resources the best way it sees fit. It can spend the money it collects in taxes on highway maintenance, health care, research, military, or counter-terrorism efforts. If it is spending $50,000,000 for every death it prevents via terrorism but could have saved 50 lives at the cost of $1,000,000 in an alternative funding, then it is being inefficient. It is completely rational, and indeed completely common-place, for government to undertake this kind of thought process.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:35 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:I may be wrong, but isn't that specific order about foreigners who've been detained? As far as I'm concerned, they don't have any rights and our Constitution doesn't protect them. I'm more concerned about my personal Constitutional rights.

That is a frightening comment.

Foreigners who have been detained don't have any rights? None?

The constitution didn't "give" us rights. The constitution outlined the rights exist from birth.

So yes, nobody deserves to be detained indefinitely and without charge. America SHOULD NOT do that.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:36 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:In terms of the "I've never heard a devout liberal address 'what would they do to handle the terrorism issue'".

I've never heard a devout Republican answer the "what did Iraq have to do with terrorism" question.


Just because I am a conservative (or social-fascist as you would say :-b) doesn't mean I don't think Iraq was a mistake. Do you frequent Digg? I am assuming you do.

No, I don't frequent digg. I've heard of it, but don't know anything about. Kind of like Twitter. Not a clue what that actually is.

"conservative" does not equal "social-fascist". If you are calling yourself a conservative - yet are also looking to limit the personal freedoms of people through banning gay marriage, irrational drug laws, and other "government knows what's best for you and needs to protect you from yourself even though you are causing absolutely no harm to anyone else", then you have re-defined the term "conservative". Because that's not what it means.

I would call myself a conservative.

I was under the impression that the key split between American libertarianism and American conservatism is the "social fascism" element, as you call it, at least if we're combining economic policy and social policy to create a label to define oneself as. A healthy percentage of those that consider themselves conservatives would be more accurately described as libertarians, though the two are often lumped together. Differentiating between the two would make it so much easier for political discourse, though it would be harder for the Republicans to elect a president.

Libertarianism will become the "new" conservatism within the next 50 years, though.
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Re: It's Official: George Bush DID take away your freedoms

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:40 pm

We don't disagree.

People who believed in the bulk of the conservative platform, but believed in the Bible just a little bit more than the Constitution co-opted the "conservative" term, and made it the Huckabee/Limbaugh/Bush/Pat Robertson/Hannity crowd that it is today.

But rest assured, that is NOT conservatism.
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