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New Presidential Rankings

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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:35 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:I am taking disagreement with the literal words in that post. I don't feel like getting into an argument about Civil War specifics or why Lincoln went to war. But the statement that "Lincoln never freed a single slave" is so utterly ridiculous that I have to say something.

Slaves were freed because of the EP. Yup, they really were. Nope, not all slaves were as many were freed after the passage of the thirteenth amendment. Initially it was a small amount but by early 1863 many slaves had been freed. If I was still in school and had access to the articles, I'd refer you to the North & South journal, specifically volume five, number one (2001). Not surprisingly it's used in the wiki article for the EP:

The Emancipation Proclamation did not immediately free a single slave.[1] The Emancipation Proclamation was widely attacked at the time as freeing only the slaves over which the Union had no power. This was an exaggeration: the Proclamation went into immediate effect in at least part of every CSA state except Tennessee and Texas[2], and brought freedom to thousands of slaves the day it went into effect.[3]


I guess there's really no better way to put it. You can check the citation yourself if you'd like. I miss being able to read about this stuff. :,-(


Personally, I think it's a load of BS. The Confederacy was not bound by anything Lincoln said or did. It's kind of like saying that Obama has the authority to declare that people in the UK don't have to pay taxes (or something asinine like that). It may have led to the 13th amendment, but it was nothing more than propaganda.


And as for Katrina, I don't think any federal aid should have gone there at all. If you decide to live or do business in a city that's below sea level, in a hurricane zone, and surrounded by water on three sides, you deserve whatever you get. Stupidest city plan ever.
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:41 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:Let me spell it out for you.

As Boomer said, there have been numerous terrorism attempts foiled since 9/11, yet you say the fact that there hasn't been another attack since can't be looked at as a plus for Bush's legacy. Who are you to say that the measures his administration took post-9/11 didn't prevent another terrorist attack from occurring on our soil?

Who are you to say that they did? There has been exactly one attack of that magnitude and scope--or near it--on American soil in history (excepting acts of war, which I think, at least for this conversation, should be differenctiated from acts of terrorism). Does every president in history get the same credit for the measures they took to prevent terrorist attacks on American soil? I don't believe that there have been no more attacks because of Bush policies against terrorism, I think there have been no more attacks regardless of them, or possibly even despite them.
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:44 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:Let me spell it out for you.

As Boomer said, there have been numerous terrorism attempts foiled since 9/11, yet you say the fact that there hasn't been another attack since can't be looked at as a plus for Bush's legacy. Who are you to say that the measures his administration took post-9/11 didn't prevent another terrorist attack from occurring on our soil?

Who are you to say that they did? There has been exactly one attack of that magnitude and scope--or near it--on American soil in history (excepting acts of war, which I think, at least for this conversation, should be differentiated from acts of terrorism). Does every president in history get the same credit for the measures they took to prevent terrorist attacks on American soil? I don't believe that there have been no more attacks because of Bush policies against terrorism, I think there have been no more attacks regardless of them, or possibly even despite them.


I'm not going to argue because it's all very well possible. There seemed to be the idea though that after 9/11 the US was just ripe for another large-scale attack (or several) and there hasn't been one. Maybe Bush and his policies don't deserve any of the credit but maybe they do. I'm not sure that we can ever answer that question.
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:34 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:And as for Katrina, I don't think any federal aid should have gone there at all. If you decide to live or do business in a city that's below sea level, in a hurricane zone, and surrounded by water on three sides, you deserve whatever you get. Stupidest city plan ever.
Are you going to say the same thing when LA or SF gets leveled by an earthquake?
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Yoda » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:43 pm

Bush cut significant funding for levee projects. It is well documented.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:46 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:And as for Katrina, I don't think any federal aid should have gone there at all. If you decide to live or do business in a city that's below sea level, in a hurricane zone, and surrounded by water on three sides, you deserve whatever you get. Stupidest city plan ever.
Are you going to say the same thing when LA or SF gets leveled by an earthquake?


Yup.
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:49 pm

It's very true that the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality that someone brought up early will certainly hold true as we inch further and further away from the Bush era. I despise the man as much as the next guy, but the media had such a field day with him that there is no way, presently, for him to redeem himself. It will take time. And time will be generous to Bush. And you can assume that I mean we'll forget, but I think it will be because of future events that we will realize that Bush wasn't as bad as Jon Stewart, or whoever you happen to be watching, said he was. Again, not suggesting he was a great President, he was far from a great President, but he wasn't the worse thing to happen to DC like so many in the media suggest.
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:52 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:And as for Katrina, I don't think any federal aid should have gone there at all. If you decide to live or do business in a city that's below sea level, in a hurricane zone, and surrounded by water on three sides, you deserve whatever you get. Stupidest city plan ever.
Are you going to say the same thing when LA or SF gets leveled by an earthquake?


Yup.


Now, BP, you know I agree with you on a number of things, primarily conservative issues, but I have to disagree here. I think it's our obligation as a civil nation to provide aid to those in need. Whether they're ignorant for putting themselves in a questionable situation or not. Not talking handouts to free-loaders, but if you grew up in an area notorious for hurricanes but haven't been hit by a Katrina yet, I can understand not wanting to move away. Yeah, I know, that's not the same as leaving when you're told to because a huge wall of water is coming. Similar principle I think though.
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby cordscords » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:04 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:And as for Katrina, I don't think any federal aid should have gone there at all. If you decide to live or do business in a city that's below sea level, in a hurricane zone, and surrounded by water on three sides, you deserve whatever you get. Stupidest city plan ever.
Are you going to say the same thing when LA or SF gets leveled by an earthquake?


Yup.


Me too. As terrible as these things are, maybe I don't want my taxes going towards it. Through donations sure, but you should know what the risks are where you live. Be prepared to pay higher taxes locally if you enjoy your living situation that much.
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Re: New Presidential Rankings

Postby CadensDad » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:44 pm

cordscords wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote: Are you going to say the same thing when LA or SF gets leveled by an earthquake?


Yup.


Me too. As terrible as these things are, maybe I don't want my taxes going towards it. Through donations sure, but you should know what the risks are where you live. Be prepared to pay higher taxes locally if you enjoy your living situation that much.



I agree as well, these people where told " GET OUT OF TOWN!.... GET AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN. THIS CITY IS IN A LOT OF DANGER." But most of them didn't listen. And then they cried like babies when the feds didnt come in to save them right away. Then when they did step in a lot of the people took advantage of the help and then cried because it wasn't enough. I don't feel sorry for the people who stayed there. the ones who left? Yes I am sorry their houses/dreams are gone. But to the rest of them oh well dont be stupid
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