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Cliff Lee < Cy Young

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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby HOOTIE » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:25 pm

The Cow wrote:The big argument against Cliff Lee is level of competition, right. Halladay pitched in the tough AL East, Lee in the cupcake AL Central. So how did each pitcher fair against the other division?

Lee vs AL East
4-2 1.80 ERA in 35 IP and Lee did not face Balt

Halladay
3-3 2.57 ERA in 35 IP and Halladay did not face Det

Lee is your winner, winner, chicken dinner.

The Cow


Nothing like a 35 inning sample size to close the deal.

I bet you had CC for CY too, and Omar for HOF? :-D

I think both sides are a little crazy thinking a slam dunk. Was a close race. Had Roy had some luck, run support, tough losses, he probably would have won. It wasn't like Lee had a Colon type CY year. Lee was great.
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby rjforlife » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:29 pm

mweir145 wrote:
The Cow wrote:The big argument against Cliff Lee is level of competition, right. Halladay pitched in the tough AL East, Lee in the cupcake AL Central. So how did each pitcher fair against the other division?

Lee vs AL East
4-2 1.80 ERA in 35 IP and Lee did not face Balt

Halladay
3-3 2.57 ERA in 35 IP and Halladay did not face Det


No, read the thread. It is about the strength of their schedules, not about the difference in divisional strength. Lee had 17 IP of shutout baseball agaisnt one of the worst offensive teams in the AL, the Toronto Blue Jays, a member of the AL East.



Kind of hard to just read the thread since you dragged it out for 10 pages......
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:54 pm

rjforlife wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
The Cow wrote:The big argument against Cliff Lee is level of competition, right. Halladay pitched in the tough AL East, Lee in the cupcake AL Central. So how did each pitcher fair against the other division?

Lee vs AL East
4-2 1.80 ERA in 35 IP and Lee did not face Balt

Halladay
3-3 2.57 ERA in 35 IP and Halladay did not face Det


No, read the thread. It is about the strength of their schedules, not about the difference in divisional strength. Lee had 17 IP of shutout baseball agaisnt one of the worst offensive teams in the AL, the Toronto Blue Jays, a member of the AL East.



Kind of hard to just read the thread since you dragged it out for 10 pages......


they could basically just read the first page because i'm pretty sure a there haven't been any new arguments/points made since then
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby mweir145 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:30 am

GiantsFan14 wrote:
rjforlife wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
No, read the thread. It is about the strength of their schedules, not about the difference in divisional strength. Lee had 17 IP of shutout baseball agaisnt one of the worst offensive teams in the AL, the Toronto Blue Jays, a member of the AL East.



Kind of hard to just read the thread since you dragged it out for 10 pages......


they could basically just read the first page because i'm pretty sure a there haven't been any new arguments/points made since then


Wrong, there have been several. This thread has gone long because a number of people have different opinions on this.
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby mweir145 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:33 am

rjforlife wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
The Cow wrote:The big argument against Cliff Lee is level of competition, right. Halladay pitched in the tough AL East, Lee in the cupcake AL Central. So how did each pitcher fair against the other division?

Lee vs AL East
4-2 1.80 ERA in 35 IP and Lee did not face Balt

Halladay
3-3 2.57 ERA in 35 IP and Halladay did not face Det


No, read the thread. It is about the strength of their schedules, not about the difference in divisional strength. Lee had 17 IP of shutout baseball agaisnt one of the worst offensive teams in the AL, the Toronto Blue Jays, a member of the AL East.



Kind of hard to just read the thread since you dragged it out for 10 pages......


I'm so sorry I made life difficult for you. ;-7
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby fattykid2000 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:49 am

ROY FOR PREZ YO... ANYONE THAT GOT BEEF WITH HIM AINT A BBALL FAN SON...
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby daullaz » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:24 am

kab21 wrote:I can't see how their can be this big of an argument when there are 2 deserving candidates.


One of them plays for the Blue Jays.
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby mweir145 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:31 am

fattykid2000 wrote:ROY FOR PREZ YO... ANYONE THAT GOT BEEF WITH HIM AINT A BBALL FAN SON...

No doubt. And Prime Minister, too.
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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby The Cow » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:19 am

mweir145 wrote:
fattykid2000 wrote:ROY FOR PREZ YO... ANYONE THAT GOT BEEF WITH HIM AINT A BBALL FAN SON...

No doubt. And Prime Minister, too.


I think the fact that the only one on your side in this debate is Fatty Yo-Yo Jelly speaks volumes as to just how far off base you are Weir. Lee won and he deserved to win. If not for Lee than Halladay would have won, but stinks for Halladay that Lee had such an outstanding year.

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Re: Cliff Lee < Cy Young

Postby mweir145 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:42 pm

The Cow wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
fattykid2000 wrote:ROY FOR PREZ YO... ANYONE THAT GOT BEEF WITH HIM AINT A BBALL FAN SON...

No doubt. And Prime Minister, too.


I think the fact that the only one on your side in this debate is Fatty Yo-Yo Jelly speaks volumes as to just how far off base you are Weir. Lee won and he deserved to win. If not for Lee than Halladay would have won, but stinks for Halladay that Lee had such an outstanding year.

The Cow

*Sigh*

Again, you should probably read the thread, or first actually get some perspective about what you are even talking about. I cited articles from Joe Sheehan of BP and Rob Neyer of ESPN for my points. Dave Cameron, a writer for U.S.S. Mariner and fangraphs, also wrote an article a month or so ago about why Halladay should be considered for the CY. There have been several articles like this around the baseball world suggesting pretty much the same thing I am.

In this particular thread, I recall J35J being on my side of this issue, and last month I remember RynMan agreeing with my assertion that Halladay was the best pitcher in baseball in '08. Anybody who isn't completely biased can see that I actually have a point here, and am certainly not "off base."

So no, it's not just the Fatkid.
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