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Re: Manny

Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:07 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:I love how we can argue "would haves" around here. :-b

I don't think there's any doubt that a happy and motivated Manny is better than Bay offensively. He's also much worse defensively. And as unhappy as Manny seemed to be in Boston, I don't think there's any way to know if Boston would have been a better team. Heck Manny may have just checked out and they may have missed the playoffs completely.


I don't see how it helps to say that Manny may have just mailed it in for the RSox. With that logic you can say the Kazmir/V.Zambrano trade was a good one b/c Kazmir may have played crappy for the Mets. The fact is that the Mets were idiots to trade Kazmir. As for Manny, he has hit .340 with 12 HR and 30 RBI in 159 ALCS ABs. Without Manny in front of him Ortiz stunk it up. Nobody pitched around Bay to get to Ortiz. Face it people Theo has lost it, he's past his prime.
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Re: Manny

Postby Yoda » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:21 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:holy mother...

According to the New York Post, "the Dodgers have offered Manny Ramirez a two-year deal worth $60 million."
However, the newspaper notes that "the offer was designed to appease the team's fan base rather than actually retain Ramirez." Ramirez and agent Scott Boras likely have no interest in a two-year deal when they should be able to get at least four years on the open market.


Wow. But even if he gets a $80/4 which is what I am predicting, that is still better than $60/2.
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Re: Manny

Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:34 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I love how we can argue "would haves" around here. :-b

I don't think there's any doubt that a happy and motivated Manny is better than Bay offensively. He's also much worse defensively. And as unhappy as Manny seemed to be in Boston, I don't think there's any way to know if Boston would have been a better team. Heck Manny may have just checked out and they may have missed the playoffs completely.


I don't see how it helps to say that Manny may have just mailed it in for the RSox. With that logic you can say the Kazmir/V.Zambrano trade was a good one b/c Kazmir may have played crappy for the Mets. The fact is that the Mets were idiots to trade Kazmir. As for Manny, he has hit .340 with 12 HR and 30 RBI in 159 ALCS ABs. Without Manny in front of him Ortiz stunk it up. Nobody pitched around Bay to get to Ortiz. Face it people Theo has lost it, he's past his prime.

I don't understand this logic at all. Boston now has an elite outfielder at a bargain price for an entire year due to this deal. And with they nearly won in '08 even without Manny! Theo remains one of the best GMs in baseball.
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Re: Manny

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:11 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I love how we can argue "would haves" around here. :-b

I don't think there's any doubt that a happy and motivated Manny is better than Bay offensively. He's also much worse defensively. And as unhappy as Manny seemed to be in Boston, I don't think there's any way to know if Boston would have been a better team. Heck Manny may have just checked out and they may have missed the playoffs completely.


I don't see how it helps to say that Manny may have just mailed it in for the RSox. With that logic you can say the Kazmir/V.Zambrano trade was a good one b/c Kazmir may have played crappy for the Mets. The fact is that the Mets were idiots to trade Kazmir. As for Manny, he has hit .340 with 12 HR and 30 RBI in 159 ALCS ABs. Without Manny in front of him Ortiz stunk it up. Nobody pitched around Bay to get to Ortiz. Face it people Theo has lost it, he's past his prime.

Ortiz has not been the same player without Manny, no doubt. But to clarify, Youk hits behind Ortiz, not Bay. Bay often hit 5th or 6th.
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Re: Manny

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:31 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I love how we can argue "would haves" around here. :-b

I don't think there's any doubt that a happy and motivated Manny is better than Bay offensively. He's also much worse defensively. And as unhappy as Manny seemed to be in Boston, I don't think there's any way to know if Boston would have been a better team. Heck Manny may have just checked out and they may have missed the playoffs completely.


I don't see how it helps to say that Manny may have just mailed it in for the RSox. With that logic you can say the Kazmir/V.Zambrano trade was a good one b/c Kazmir may have played crappy for the Mets. The fact is that the Mets were idiots to trade Kazmir. As for Manny, he has hit .340 with 12 HR and 30 RBI in 159 ALCS ABs. Without Manny in front of him Ortiz stunk it up. Nobody pitched around Bay to get to Ortiz. Face it people Theo has lost it, he's past his prime.


Well you should probably be realistic. Manny had mailed in much of the first 4 months for the Sox so it doesn't make sense to think the light switch was going to flip and he was going to be Dodgers Manny for the rest of the season. Every time they faced a tough pitcher he took the day off. Every time he stubbed his toe he took the day (or maybe a weekend) off. If Manny was happy and motivated then the Sox traded down, but if he was grouchy and sulky then the Sox traded up. You just won't ever know which it was. ;-)

Maybe Theo is clairvoyant and he knew that with Manny they miss the playoffs, and with Bay they almost make the World Series and he was just hoping that somehow he could change the result of that last game. :-D
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Re: Manny

Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:40 pm

I hate all of this BS being spread around that Manny wasn't trying. He was one of the hardest workers on that team, and they would have certainly made the playoffs with him there. I admit it was a good trade for Boston, but enough with the Manny bashing.
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Re: Manny

Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:00 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I love how we can argue "would haves" around here. :-b

I don't think there's any doubt that a happy and motivated Manny is better than Bay offensively. He's also much worse defensively. And as unhappy as Manny seemed to be in Boston, I don't think there's any way to know if Boston would have been a better team. Heck Manny may have just checked out and they may have missed the playoffs completely.


I don't see how it helps to say that Manny may have just mailed it in for the RSox. With that logic you can say the Kazmir/V.Zambrano trade was a good one b/c Kazmir may have played crappy for the Mets. The fact is that the Mets were idiots to trade Kazmir. As for Manny, he has hit .340 with 12 HR and 30 RBI in 159 ALCS ABs. Without Manny in front of him Ortiz stunk it up. Nobody pitched around Bay to get to Ortiz. Face it people Theo has lost it, he's past his prime.


Well you should probably be realistic. Manny had mailed in much of the first 4 months for the Sox so it doesn't make sense to think the light switch was going to flip and he was going to be Dodgers Manny for the rest of the season. Every time they faced a tough pitcher he took the day off. Every time he stubbed his toe he took the day (or maybe a weekend) off. If Manny was happy and motivated then the Sox traded down, but if he was grouchy and sulky then the Sox traded up. You just won't ever know which it was. ;-)

Maybe Theo is clairvoyant and he knew that with Manny they miss the playoffs, and with Bay they almost make the World Series and he was just hoping that somehow he could change the result of that last game. :-D



Seriously? When was the last time a team with a Canadian on it won the WS? Francis cursed the Rox and the Phillies will soon find the same with that fatass Matt Stairs. Bay is an albatross. Theo should be fired.
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Re: Manny

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:13 pm

mweir145 wrote:I hate all of this BS being spread around that Manny wasn't trying. He was one of the hardest workers on that team, and they would have certainly made the playoffs with him there. I admit it was a good trade for Boston, but enough with the Manny bashing.


Come on, Mweir, have you looked at his numbers pre- and post-trade? You can't look at his numbers and tell me that he didn't kick it up a notch when he got to LA. He had $80 million reasons to.

I have to believe they would have still made the playoffs with Manny, but who knows what condition the clubhouse was going to be in if he had stayed...

Manny was known for his methodical game preparation and the guy has an unbelievable talent for crushing a baseball. That goes without saying. But, he was obviously trying to play his way out of Boston and he got what he wanted. I for one, was sad to see him go. I absolutely hate that it ended this way, but I also don't get a say in the decisions the team makes and I don't know what the "behind-the-scenes" conversations are. Were the Sox willing to drop the team option and renegotiate? I don't know. Did they want to see him throw a fit and manipulate his way out of Boston, probably not. But, the situation is what it is and it was years in the making. No way around that.
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Re: Manny

Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:36 pm

RedSoxNation04 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I hate all of this BS being spread around that Manny wasn't trying. He was one of the hardest workers on that team, and they would have certainly made the playoffs with him there. I admit it was a good trade for Boston, but enough with the Manny bashing.


Come on, Mweir, have you looked at his numbers pre- and post-trade? You can't look at his numbers and tell me that he didn't kick it up a notch when he got to LA. He had $80 million reasons to.

No, that's impossible to determine. What I can tell you is that the NL West is a terrible division compared to the AL East.
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