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MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Simulacrum » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:28 pm

Some of you seem unaware that there are currently all sorts of legal steroids on the market right now, and that they are always readily available, legally. The mad chemists need only to alter one tiny element in a particular formula and, pow it's legal again! And then they sell like crazy until the DEA and our giant clumsy government get all the new formulas into the black lists, which takes years. And then the cycle repeats again. What I'm trying to say is that there are potent, legal, readily available steroids out there, all the time. So it's very possible many baseball players using steroids did not even break any of our country's laws.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:21 pm

Madison wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Maybe you forgot what this thread was about:

NEW YORK -- The baseball players' union says it has found evidence teams acted in concert against signing Barry Bonds but it reached an agreement with the commissioner's office to delay the filing of any grievance.


Nope, didn't forget, just found what you said humerous and not really worth the obvious point out. :-b

For some reason you had issue with me saying "likely." If the MLBPA has found evidence of collusion, there was "likely" collusion that went down, as they have tended to win these types of cases in the past.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:29 pm

Simulacrum wrote:Some of you seem unaware that there are currently all sorts of legal steroids on the market right now, and that they are always readily available, legally. The mad chemists need only to alter one tiny element in a particular formula and, pow it's legal again! And then they sell like crazy until the DEA and our giant clumsy government get all the new formulas into the black lists, which takes years. And then the cycle repeats again. What I'm trying to say is that there are potent, legal, readily available steroids out there, all the time. So it's very possible many baseball players using steroids did not even break any of our country's laws.

Oh, I'm well aware of all that. This is basically what that chemist Patrick Arnold was doing for BALCO. He created the designed steroid THG (The Clear), a steroid that wasn't agaisnt the law or agaisnt the rules at first because nobody associated with the DEA even knew it existed. With the constant demand, designer drugs like these are still getting made.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:07 pm

I'm a chemist, and I think I'm in the wrong business. There a big bucks to be made in altering already known chemicals like steroids.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Simulacrum » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:20 pm

I'm sure there are! It really just baffles me. A big part of my job is putting higher ed classes online, and one class I've been putting online for years is an exercise and wellness course. So I've heard a lot about this stuff over the years. The amazing thing to me is, the instructor is as straight-laced as they come. No smoking, no drinking, no caffeine even. No nothing, and he's the most in shape 60 year old guy I've ever met. He experimented with steroids in his youth, and talks in his class that they can actually be good for the right human body in the right dose and cycle.

I've heard this a lot so I'll give you guys the gist of it. We get old and eventually die of old age because our organs wear, sustain damage, and then one or more of them eventually fails. This is a natural result of every day wear and tear on your body. While you're young, larger amounts of testosterone keeps those organs healthy and able to heal the minor damage they sustain through daily activities. However, as we age we significantly drop in natural testosterone production. When we are 30, we have half as much occurring naturally as when we were 20. And when we are 50, we are down to 10%. Our organs build up damage and break down because they lose the ability to heal themselves. (Steroids work by sending your body's testosterone through the roof). On the other side of the coin, there are the side effects of the steroids. Oral steroids are hard on your liver, while injectable steroids are not. All steroids are hard on your heart, and they increase your blood pressure. This can lead to stroke and heart attack over time. These are the serious, long-term side effects, the other side effects are more controllable through proper dosing and cycling. That's the two sides of the steroid argument that I've heard repeated, in a nutshell.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:23 pm

Exactly. I've been saying stuff like that on this forum for years. Where were you before now in these discussions, Sim? :-D

An incredibly negative stigma has been placed on steroids over time by the mainstream media, so much so that whenever a regular person hears the word, they automatically associate it with cheating in sports. But steroids are used for many positive things. It's when you over-use a steroid that bad side-effects can start to occur (unfortunately, athletes tend to do this), but that is the case for most drugs.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby bigken117 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:14 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:I'm a chemist, and I think I'm in the wrong business. There a big bucks to be made in altering already known chemicals like steroids.


Just because you have a meth lab in your mom's basement doesn't make you a chemist ;-)
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Simulacrum » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:46 pm

mweir145 wrote:Exactly. I've been saying stuff like that on this forum for years. Where were you before now in these discussions, Sim? :-D

An incredibly negative stigma has been placed on steroids over time by the mainstream media, so much so that whenever a regular person hears the word, they automatically associate it with cheating in sports. But steroids are used for many positive things. It's when you over-use a steroid that bad side-effects can start to occur (unfortunately, athletes tend to do this), but that is the case for most drugs.


Yes, an incredibly negative stigma has been placed on steroids, and I think it's a wise move by our government to put it there. Steroids are dangerous chemicals, and messing around with your body's chemistry is a very risky thing to do. The majority of our country's citizens are way too dumb to be tinkering around and experimenting with them in the first place, and since we're not completely sure about the long term effects because it's illegal to conduct the testing... screw it, let's just tell everyone they're horrendously lethal.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:55 am

How can the government justify smoking, then? That's a far more harmful habit than steroid use, yet it remains legal.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Simulacrum » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:25 am

Who's to say though mweir? The long term studies have never been done.

Smoking and alcohol, two of the very biggest killers, aren't ever coming off the shelf because Big Tobacco and Big Alcohol have way too much money and way too much influence over the people who make the laws in Washington.
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