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2009 FA List and Predictions

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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby bigken117 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:38 am

AussieDodger wrote:How does Varitek re-signing with Boston, either 1 Y @ 6mil or 2Y @ 6 mil per sound?


Maybe if he wants to be the bullpen coach...

Seriously I can't see how a champion contender gives him 450+ AB next season. Tonight notwithstanding, he looks like he's swinging a wet noodle at the plate.
The Sox probably will bring him back, but if it's the best they can do :-o they could be worse off.
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby AussieDodger » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:23 am

bigken117 wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:How does Varitek re-signing with Boston, either 1 Y @ 6mil or 2Y @ 6 mil per sound?


Maybe if he wants to be the bullpen coach...

Seriously I can't see how a champion contender gives him 450+ AB next season. Tonight notwithstanding, he looks like he's swinging a wet noodle at the plate.
The Sox probably will bring him back, but if it's the best they can do :-o they could be worse off.


There's not really anyone else meaningful that would cost just cash. ( I-Rod = :-P )

I think how skilfully he catches, and what he means to you historically is worth $6 mil (if you have the money).

Maybe Theo will get 1 year of Varitek AND a Texas catcher. I could see that working.
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:29 am

AussieDodger wrote:
bigken117 wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:How does Varitek re-signing with Boston, either 1 Y @ 6mil or 2Y @ 6 mil per sound?


Maybe if he wants to be the bullpen coach...

Seriously I can't see how a champion contender gives him 450+ AB next season. Tonight notwithstanding, he looks like he's swinging a wet noodle at the plate.
The Sox probably will bring him back, but if it's the best they can do :-o they could be worse off.


There's not really anyone else meaningful that would cost just cash. ( I-Rod = :-P )

I think how skilfully he catches, and what he means to you historically is worth $6 mil (if you have the money).

Maybe Theo will get 1 year of Varitek AND a Texas catcher. I could see that working.

His ability to catch a staff and keep them focused is worth $6 million alone. I agree his performance at the plate leaves a LOT to be desired, but at the same time, I also see Boras bringing up the Posada contract as a benchmark. We can't afford that, but I think the captain still has something to offer this team and can still be remotely productive in stretches.

IF we can get a Texas catcher, that would be a very good thing as well...
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby AquaMan2342 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:35 pm

RedSoxNation04 wrote:
His ability to catch a staff and keep them focused is worth $6 million alone.



Does anybody agree with statement? Can anybody explain to me how one can determine a certain catcher "keeps a staff focused"? A friend of mine tried to use this logic with Pudge in Detroit until he was traded. Fact is that Varitek has a terrible arm and can't hit a lick anymore.

Did Atlanta's pitching staff put up legendary numbers in the 1990s because Javy Lopez and co. were great at "keeping the staff focused"? No...they did it because they had the best pitching personnel in the game. This year Boston had the 9th ranked team ERA in the majors, and the year before they were 2nd. Besides that, they have only had a top-10 team ERA once in the last ten years, most of which were caught primarily by Varitek. What does that mean? How far into the intangible bag is somebody reaching if there is no statistical evidence to back up such a claim?
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:21 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
RedSoxNation04 wrote:
His ability to catch a staff and keep them focused is worth $6 million alone.



Does anybody agree with statement? Can anybody explain to me how one can determine a certain catcher "keeps a staff focused"? A friend of mine tried to use this logic with Pudge in Detroit until he was traded. Fact is that Varitek has a terrible arm and can't hit a lick anymore.

Did Atlanta's pitching staff put up legendary numbers in the 1990s because Javy Lopez and co. were great at "keeping the staff focused"? No...they did it because they had the best pitching personnel in the game. This year Boston had the 9th ranked team ERA in the majors, and the year before they were 2nd. Besides that, they have only had a top-10 team ERA once in the last ten years, most of which were caught primarily by Varitek. What does that mean? How far into the intangible bag is somebody reaching if there is no statistical evidence to back up such a claim?


Yup.
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby AquaMan2342 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:59 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
RedSoxNation04 wrote:
His ability to catch a staff and keep them focused is worth $6 million alone.



Does anybody agree with statement? Can anybody explain to me how one can determine a certain catcher "keeps a staff focused"? A friend of mine tried to use this logic with Pudge in Detroit until he was traded. Fact is that Varitek has a terrible arm and can't hit a lick anymore.

Did Atlanta's pitching staff put up legendary numbers in the 1990s because Javy Lopez and co. were great at "keeping the staff focused"? No...they did it because they had the best pitching personnel in the game. This year Boston had the 9th ranked team ERA in the majors, and the year before they were 2nd. Besides that, they have only had a top-10 team ERA once in the last ten years, most of which were caught primarily by Varitek. What does that mean? How far into the intangible bag is somebody reaching if there is no statistical evidence to back up such a claim?


Yup.


Ok. Define how Varitek does that better than Gregg Zaun for Toronto or Coste/Ruiz for Philly, whose staffs had better ERAs this year than Boston. I'd bet nobody would make the same argument for them to get six million a year.
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby KCollins1304 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:19 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
Does anybody agree with statement? Can anybody explain to me how one can determine a certain catcher "keeps a staff focused"? A friend of mine tried to use this logic with Pudge in Detroit until he was traded. Fact is that Varitek has a terrible arm and can't hit a lick anymore.

Did Atlanta's pitching staff put up legendary numbers in the 1990s because Javy Lopez and co. were great at "keeping the staff focused"? No...they did it because they had the best pitching personnel in the game. This year Boston had the 9th ranked team ERA in the majors, and the year before they were 2nd. Besides that, they have only had a top-10 team ERA once in the last ten years, most of which were caught primarily by Varitek. What does that mean? How far into the intangible bag is somebody reaching if there is no statistical evidence to back up such a claim?


Yup.


Ok. Define how Varitek does that better than Gregg Zaun for Toronto or Coste/Ruiz for Philly, whose staffs had better ERAs this year than Boston. I'd bet nobody would make the same argument for them to get six million a year.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think he is agreeing with you. :-?
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby AquaMan2342 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:46 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Yup.


Ok. Define how Varitek does that better than Gregg Zaun for Toronto or Coste/Ruiz for Philly, whose staffs had better ERAs this year than Boston. I'd bet nobody would make the same argument for them to get six million a year.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think he is agreeing with you. :-?


Dang it. I seriously thought about it for like five minutes before I posted that. :-D
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:41 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
Ok. Define how Varitek does that better than Gregg Zaun for Toronto or Coste/Ruiz for Philly, whose staffs had better ERAs this year than Boston. I'd bet nobody would make the same argument for them to get six million a year.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think he is agreeing with you. :-?


Dang it. I seriously thought about it for like five minutes before I posted that. :-D


:-b Yes, I was agreeing, but I can see why my post may have been misleading.
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Re: 2009 FA List and Predictions

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:29 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
RedSoxNation04 wrote:
His ability to catch a staff and keep them focused is worth $6 million alone.



Does anybody agree with statement? Can anybody explain to me how one can determine a certain catcher "keeps a staff focused"? A friend of mine tried to use this logic with Pudge in Detroit until he was traded. Fact is that Varitek has a terrible arm and can't hit a lick anymore.

Did Atlanta's pitching staff put up legendary numbers in the 1990s because Javy Lopez and co. were great at "keeping the staff focused"? No...they did it because they had the best pitching personnel in the game. This year Boston had the 9th ranked team ERA in the majors, and the year before they were 2nd. Besides that, they have only had a top-10 team ERA once in the last ten years, most of which were caught primarily by Varitek. What does that mean? How far into the intangible bag is somebody reaching if there is no statistical evidence to back up such a claim?

I see your point about team ERA and I"m sure you can throw out more statistics if you wanted to, I really didn't look into them when I made the comment. Having watched a vast majority of the Sox games over the course of the last several years, my feeling on Varitek is that he's handled a lot of very young pitchers in the pressure-cooker that is Boston. He's been a team leader in the clubhouse and someone that most guys on the team look up to. He's a class act and from the standpoint of what he has contributed to this organization over the years, I think a $6 million dollar contract (which we all know it won't be anyway) would be a relative bargain. So, yes, the argument is mostly on intangibles but it's also a $6 million dollar argument, not $15 or $20...

I also said that his hitting leaves a lot to be desired so we agree there. If an upgrade were available, I think it would have to be considered but at this very moment, I don't think there is upgrade that makes the Sox a better team where the scenario ends up being that Varitek is not resigned.

Either way, Boras is going to ask for a lot and it will be a multi-year deal they want. I expect Varitek will want to stay, but I just don't know how this one is going to play out.
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