noseeum wrote:You guys are just starting with an impression, "Mussina was always just pretty good," and finding justifications for it. While on the Orioles and his first few years with the Yanks he was easily a top 5 pitcher in the AL, behind three all time studs, Pedro, Roger, and Unit. Since there are very few periods in baseball where you have a trio like that, I don't think you hold it against Mussina that he was right behind them.
He wasn't just pretty good. He was very good but I wouldn't say great. Maybe he was great for a season or two but you have to look at his peers. When you talk about Pedro, Clemens, Unit, Maddux, you instantly think of them as HOFers and there is a reason for that. They were great. Even Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling have more accomplishments than Mussina.
The bottom line is, you have to draw the line somewhere. I don't look at Mussina and think that he is a HOFer.
Pedro, Clemens, Unit, Maddux would all pretty easily make the top 15 all time pitchers, so I don't think it's fair to ask Mussina to live up to that. If you looked at a list of hall of fame pitchers, he'd be nowhere near the bottom. As in nowhere even close. I understand a lot of people think there are too many guys in the hall as it is, and for me, I would always vote no on a guy that is only as good as the worst 5 guys in the hall at his position. But that doesn't apply to Mussina. He compares favorably to guys like Don Drysdale.
In baseball reference's HOF monitors, he passes all with flying colors except for the black ink test, and that's thanks to the aforementioned Pedro, Clemens, Unit.
I don't think he's a surefire first ballot guy or anything, but he's a HOFer in my book.