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League Transition: Keeper into Auction

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League Transition: Keeper into Auction

Postby Smileyman9 » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:46 am

Before you go through reading below the question is does anyone have any experience in transitioning a league from a keeper into an auction-keeper league? If so, how did you do it? OR How would you do it?

The background story...

My league and I are wrapping up our 7th season as a keeper league (12 teams; 10 keepers) and my commish recently proposed to move away from a straight keeper league and transition immediately into a keeper auction league starting next season.

His solution on continuity between the straight keeper and auction is that a monetary values be associated with any players that teams would like to keep. The monetary value can be created either through league vote and/or taking the average value that's attributed in published written sources.

I'm not against transitioning, although I'm not thrilled about the immediate move in 2009 as I think this is the kind of change that people would have taken into account throughout the entire 08 campaign (he doesn't want to propose the league start date of 2010, thus making our keeper league next year a "lame duck" year).

My feeling is that if we're changing league format and it has to be for 2009 then continuity be damned = we should just start from scratch. I'll admit, it's partly for selfish reasons, but how would it be fair that the players that I've drafted/traded and picked off of waivers the past 7 seasons be out of the realm of reason to keep in an auction league (IE Hanley, Sizemore, Felix, Mcab) while someone who drafted David Price this last year end up with him at a premium? The retort from my commish was that I should consider all of the other great players that people can't keep that will be on the table, while I agree - it doesn't change the fact that some teams will most definitely have an advantage with young prospects that haven't quite yet hit their stride and are most likely bargains at the moment.

Anyway. Any input would be appreciated...

Thanks ;-D
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Re: League Transition: Keeper into Auction

Postby Ragoczy » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:39 am

I have to admit, it is a stupid idea. The landscape won't be even--some will benefit more than others. That said...

I think there are 3 ways to do it-

1. Value the players now based on what they earned in 2008. Rototimes' player rater will give custom values. This allows everyone to know values immediately. Problem is, those that have injured players (Furcal, Carpenter) or guys like D Price will have bargains.
2. Value the players later after a couple agreed-upon publications/sites give values. This will give you a more accurate value of players for 2009. Problem is, you have to wait until January or February and those values won't be true because of player movement, injuries, jobs won/lost, etc.
3. Use a combination of 1 & 2. That way production this year is reflected and anticipated value for '09 is taken into account.

Good Luck!
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Re: League Transition: Keeper into Auction

Postby fast dogs » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:16 pm

1 question that comes to mind, did the commish pick up players knowing that he was going to try & change the rules after the season? I had a league that changed into that format but decided midseason to make the change for next year. We used CBS current auction values as next years starting prices, most dollar figures were pretty decent but like you said there were still some first year players who would be great values.At least in our league guys had a chance to trade & find underpriced players as the season went, I agree that your change should come in 10 & not 09. If the commish (or another of his buddys)has guys like Price & Wise who will be way cheaper than they should be, I'd raise a stink & try for the change coming a year later
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Re: League Transition: Keeper into Auction

Postby Skippyoz » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:18 pm

I am trying to do the same thing in the league I am commissioner of...
- just finished our 7th year
- we have been an 8 to 12 team league
- we started as ROTO and moved to H2H four years ago
- 23 man rosters with 5 of those as bench players
- we started with 8 keepers and then reduced to 5 keepers two years ago
- use Yahoo!

We've always done live drafts and always had a set # of keepers; everyone had to have the same # of keepers. No restrictions as to how long you could keep a player.

ANYWAY, I proposed that we convert to an auction-based keeper league. This is how it would work:

- We are going to keep Yahoo!, roster sizes/spots, stats but we need to establish a salary cap
- Approximately one month before season, each team declares their 5 keepers
- At the auction, there are two phases:
1. Keeper Auction - the last place team announces a player that was kept by any team other than their own, for example: "Albert Pujols for $1". Bidding then proceeds for Albert Pujols... everyone can bid on Pujols EXCEPT the team who kept him. At the end of bidding, lets say Team 4 is the high bidder at $40. At this point, the team that originally kept Pujols decides if they want to keep Pujols at $41 (the high bid plus $1). They have the option, not the right, to do this. Now the second place team announces a player... and we repeat this until all keepers have been bid on and decided to be kept for $1 more or given up to highest bidder. Theoretically, you could end up with ZERO keepers or more than 5 keepers going in to...
2. Regular Auction - the last place team announces any player not kept. Bidding resumes as normally done in an auction league while adhering to all salary cap restrictions.

If there is an expansion team(s), which there will be 2 of them this year, we will have them bid in the Keeper portion of the draft after they select players that have not been kept by pre-existing managers.

To make it simple and to make it an easy league to transact and keep track of, after the auction all dollar values are thrown out. Dollar values are used for team assembly only. That's it. Done.

Any thoughts? Any criticism, both constructive and otherwise, would be appreciated... as I still have to get a few stragglers aboard.

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Re: League Transition: Keeper into Auction

Postby coleminer » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:03 pm

My preference would be to assign values in 2009 and play as a true auction in 2010. Since that doesn't seem to be an option, maybe a hybrid option where everyone's keepers do not count against your cap this year, but are given a value based on an agreed upon standard (e.g., 2009 publicized auction values). This will allow teams that have high-round keepers to continue with their strategies from last year while transitioning to the new format as well as those with value keepers to focus on the trade-off of competing in 2009 vs 2010 and beyond. It might create some strong haves and have-nots in 2009, but would have mirrored the strait draft in most respects. This will also create a higher base for players auctioned this year as the same dollars will be chasing a smaller value base. To compensate, you can muliply the auction values by a factor of (total auction dollars/(total auction dollars+keeper dollar value).

In addition, since you were not drafting/playing with this format in mind in 2008, use 2009 auctions values vice 2008 earnings. 2008 earnings will distort due limited playing time (injury (gallardo, ...) and minor league call-ups).

This is somewhat unorthodox, but due to the nature of timing of the change, you need to protect the integrity of the game.
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Re: League Transition: Keeper into Auction

Postby deadfish65 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:52 am

A couple of things.

1. I applaud the attempt to convert to an auction league. Auctions are much more intense and fun than draft leagues.
2. Conversely, it is a bummer to change the rules in midstream, and I could see an incredible mutiny and even the end of the league.
3. The idea of a keeper is that it is someone you retain at a value much less than his market value. So to evaluate keepers based on published auction values makes little sense as that would be market value.

One idea would be to assign values to each round of last years draft. Round 1 being $35 Round 2 being $25...etc. Then any keeper would have that value.. So AROD and Utley might not be keepers, but Longorio and Price would be. I know this has problems too. Good luck
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