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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:41 am
by WyldStallyn
wow, not one person has come to leylands defense? well, thats gotta change......

but not with me. i nearly threw a fit when i saw polanco in the 3 spot. mcab has hit in the 3 or 4 spot in his entire career, why change that? hes the best hitter on his team, and is struggling. at least give it more than 1 game to see if it gets him going

and he's not even on any of my teams!

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:43 am
by Doughhead
It's utter insanity. First Sheffield, then Polanco, now Thames (!?!?!?!). If Miggy was raking in the number 5 spot, I could maybe see not wanting to mess with it. But he's basically been in a slump all year. Miggy was made for the 3-spot. Leyland, for God's sake, make this right.

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:47 pm
by SpecialFNK
back before the season Leyland gave a reason why he was hitting Cabrera 5th. i dont remember it now. even if you look at Sheffield's numbers from last season they dont look like someone who should be batting 3rd, and hes worse this season. Sheffield should be batting 5th and Cabrera 3rd. i would think anyone with any baseball common sence should be able to see that Cabrera is the perfect fit in the 3 spot. its not like Cabrera is some inexperienced young hitter just coming into the league, he is an MVP calibre player and could probually BUST OUT if he was put in the 3 spot.
im not a Tigers fan so i almost hope the Tigers keep losing and Leyland eventually gets fired, so that the new guy who comes in can see that the best way to fix the Tigers is have Cabrera bat 3rd.
Cabrera in the 3 spot is like adding 1+1, everyone knows the answer is 2.
do the reporters in Detroit even ask Leyland about why Cabera cant be moved to the 3 spot?

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:10 pm
by byfrcp
When I first found out I was getting the 6th pick in the draft I decided I was drafting Miggy. When I found out Leyland was going to bat him 5th, I decided to take Utley. Good for me, bad for the Tigers. It can't be any more obvious that the 5 hole is not the correct spot to be batting Cabrera, but Leyland has stood his ground for the first third of the season. Unless someone higher up demands that he switches him to the 3rd spot, I could see Jim being stubborn with this for the whole year.

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:47 pm
by silverZ
When I drafted him I figured it would only be a matter of weeks until he got moved to the 3rd spot. If i knew he was gonna be batting 5th all year I would have taken Utley too. :-P :-C

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:47 pm
by pangbones
Slow Pitch wrote:It seems so simple to me:

1. Granderson
2. Polanco
3. MCab
4. Ordonez
5. Guillen
6. Sheffield/Thames
7. Renteria
8. Joyce
9. Pudge


I agree with that. And they move pudge up when they face a lefty.

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:29 pm
by MTUCache
Honestly, it's to the point where I'm not even going to try and defend it anymore.... the Tigers are being mis-managed all the way around this year.

In Detroit though, Leyland will get a free pass likely until the end of the season. He took them to the World Series two years after they were the worst team in baseball. That's all the average, casual Tigers fan sees. Most of them have no idea that Leyland is a below .500 career manager, who makes questionable decisions all the time. Two years ago, all those crazy, off-the-wall moves worked out. He looked like a genius. He's making the same illogical moves now and they're not working out, and people think it's just his "style", without realizing that most of these decisions are just plain dumb.

Beyond the batting order, he's keeping a pitching- and hitting-coach on staff that have failed to make anyone on the team better, if not downright crashing and burning their career. Nearly every "good" starter we've had since Chuck Hernandez took over as the pitching coach has come from another system, and their success came before Chuck got his hands on them (case in point: Gallaraga and Verlander). Likewise, the bullpen has languished with little or no improvement (although, admittedly there have been some pretty major injuries). McClendon has benefited from career years out of Magglio, Polanco, and a budding star in Granderson, but has done very little to improve his already established stars approach at the plate. The veteran hitters still bat only for themselves (excepting Polanco), and refuse to take a team-approach to patience or working pitchers.

Bottom line, as a frustrated Tigers fan, I'm starting to wonder why Willy Randolph has been taking heat like crazy for the Mets job, while Leyland is still held in reverence in Detroit. Both teams have similarly ridiculous payrolls which are aging and under-producing badly. Yet one is about to lose his job and the other could probably have a statue outside of Comerica. Yes, there are significant differences between the sports-atmospheres in NY and Detroit, but I fail to see how these two guys aren't nearly dopplegangers of each other.

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution in mind just yet, other than forcing Leyland to bag his staff and hire a new one. Really the only brightspot I've seen on this coaching staff that I'd like here long-term is Andy VanSlyke, who is a fine firstbase coach and a very good OF coach.

I can't think of one good reason why MCab wouldn't be hitting third (or fourth) in this lineup. Not one.

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:22 pm
by bleach168
Leyland, Randolph, Baker, Torre... it's epidemic.

Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:53 pm
by baseballin storm
I am here to defend the honor of Jim Leyland (insert trumphet fanfare here).


It is not his fault, it's hard to concentrate and make good decisions without a cigarette in hand. He didn't mismanage like this when he was allowed to smoke in the dugout with the pirates. I think a little second-hand smoke is a small price to pay for a world series championship, you with me Detroit?