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Hafner

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Re: Hafner

Postby chipper » Mon May 05, 2008 12:53 pm

pangbones wrote:So Pronk has disappointed the past year and a half, and now he's a former steroid user?? :-? Come on. Did they not test for steroids in 06??

Yesterday on Baseball Tonight Steve Phillips did a side by side of Hafner from '06 and Hafner from this year. (It always cracks me up when Phillips tries to analyze and breakdown hitter and pitchers. He is just not that knowledgible IMO. Former greats like Oral Hershiser are always correcting him on the show).

Anyway they showed the '06 and present batting stances side by side to show what was different....and the most noticeable difference was that he's not swole up anymore. Just not the same size person. Arms, forearms, legs......just not as bulky. I think it's pretty obvious.

From what I've seen a lot of his flyballs just don't do much anymore, and watching him get dominated by Gil Meche this weekend, it's just not the same guy.
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Re: Hafner

Postby J35J » Tue May 06, 2008 1:35 pm

Yeah, he went from one of the best hitters in the game to crap, just like that. There is more than natural regression going on if you ask me....I'm really not one to throw out the steriod thing but it seems pretty obvious to me too. It's not like he's 36-37 years old where a regression could come along fairly quickly...things just don't add up, IMHO. If its not roids it has to be an injury or something.
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Re: Hafner

Postby jake_harv88 » Tue May 06, 2008 1:40 pm

J35J wrote:Yeah, he went from one of the best hitters in the game to crap, just like that. There is more than natural regression going on if you ask me....I'm really not one to throw out the steriod thing but it seems pretty obvious to me too. It's not like he's 36-37 years old where a regression could come along fairly quickly...things just don't add up, IMHO. If its not roids it has to be an injury or something.


I am slowly agreeing with this more and more...
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Re: Hafner

Postby hot4tx » Tue May 06, 2008 2:00 pm

It's a proven fact that the post-Rangers stat inflation only lasts for 3 years. I'd watch out for Pena this year and AGone in 2009. ;-) I keed, I keed.


I traded Sizemore for pronk in my keeper league before the 2007 season started. :~( Good thing I was able to get value out of him mid-season from a fellow Pronk-lover looking to buy-low. The thing is, Pronk didn't lose 40 pounds or anything like some of the post-roid guys have. Maybe it's an injury or a vision problem or something weird? I keep thinking that
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Re: Hafner

Postby abc11435 » Tue May 06, 2008 2:03 pm

i'm starting to think maybe Pronk just isn't that good to begin with, roid or no roid.
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Re: Hafner

Postby Simulacrum » Tue May 06, 2008 2:17 pm

What can you do? I'm starting Daric Barton over Pronk. Can't trade him, can't drop him. X-I
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Re: Hafner

Postby acon44 » Tue May 06, 2008 2:24 pm

Here's my take...

There is something wrong with this guy, and it's beyond a baseball point of view. My personal point of view is that you do not put up the year hafner did in 06' and then decline at such a rapid pace at his age. He is not old enough where age can really be considered a huge factor.

There has been a few thing brought up here as to why this decline has happened.

To start with yes he looks lost at the plate. SOme people here are saying that it is due to certain zones he cannot hit pitches, certain pitches he cannot hit, etc. This is complete nonsense. You think it took THREE years for major league teams and pitchers to figure out what pitches to throw, and where to throw them? C'mon it's not like he had one good year, he was a dominant hitter from 04-06 with an OPS of .990 or higher each of those years! Yes there is holes in his swings NOW, but thats the whole problem, those holes were never there in those past years. He used to work counts on all pitches, and then crush anything over the plate. The ONLY thing I can see possibly being related to this is that maybe he started to struggle in 07, and he may not be able to handle it mentally. Some guys are just not smart hitters, and cannot overcome a slump, but to be honest this is really an extreme we are talking about, and the guy would have to be dumb as rocks to not listen to a hitting coach and watch video to improve.

The other scenario is an injury. He did miss time with his wrist injury, but should have had enough time to come back from that. Also, EVERY article about him says he feels 100% and the best he has in a long time. So if we take his word for it, and there is no reason not to since a nagging injury for 1+ years really doesn't make sense for him to hide, then this scenario is also out.

Then comes the obvious one. Steroids or HGH. I see some people get upset here when you accuse a guy with no other evidence, but c'mon guys isn't this the choice you HAVE to lean towards??? We have seen the EXACT same thing, and actually almost the exact same type of drop in numbers from people who have been "reported" to be taking steroids. It's common sense if you ask me- there is no other justifiable answer to this except that he used performance enhancing drugs during that 3-year period. Am I saying this is what it was 100%? No I am not. But at the same time, at this point you have to say that is the most reasonable answer. IF he WAS listed on the mitchell report, would people be talking about this so much and trying to figure out why he was slumping? SOmetimes assumptions are necessary, and in this case I think this is really not going to far out on a limb. Or do you think nobody else in the majors used this stuff that wasn't on the report?

Otherwise you're telling me it was a 1+ year slump? He cant hit certain pitches or adjust after so long? I just traded HAfner, Salty, and Ankiel for Ellsbury, Loney, and Rauch, and actually think I got good value. Try to trade him if you can get some good young players is my advice, cause even if he does rebound he will never achieve those .300-40hrs levels again. Could he possibly turn it around soon? YEah he could, but at this point, after giving him a full month of a new season to see if he has returned to any kind of form like he was at, I think it's time to realize the old Hafner is not likely reappear again.
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Re: Hafner

Postby The Cow » Tue May 06, 2008 3:00 pm

Hafner was on roids no doubt. His drastic weight loss last year was supposed to be from a new diet. Well the power was also gone. Hafner I shudder to say has warning track power now, he hits a ball good and one would expect it to be out, but it is just a fly out. Brilliant move resigning this guy. Hafner may post numbers like 2007, but forget about 2006 those days are long gone.

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Re: Hafner

Postby hot4tx » Tue May 06, 2008 3:08 pm

His drastic weight loss last year was supposed to be from a new diet.


See I guess this is what I didn't hear that much about. I didn't think he Ivan Rodriguez'd last year.
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Re: Hafner

Postby Field » Tue May 06, 2008 3:09 pm

acon44 wrote:
To start with yes he looks lost at the plate. SOme people here are saying that it is due to certain zones he cannot hit pitches, certain pitches he cannot hit, etc. This is complete nonsense. You think it took THREE years for major league teams and pitchers to figure out what pitches to throw, and where to throw them? C'mon it's not like he had one good year, he was a dominant hitter from 04-06 with an OPS of .990 or higher each of those years! Yes there is holes in his swings NOW, but thats the whole problem, those holes were never there in those past years. He used to work counts on all pitches, and then crush anything over the plate. The ONLY thing I can see possibly being related to this is that maybe he started to struggle in 07, and he may not be able to handle it mentally. Some guys are just not smart hitters, and cannot overcome a slump, but to be honest this is really an extreme we are talking about, and the guy would have to be dumb as rocks to not listen to a hitting coach and watch video to improve.


Well, if a player's bat speed decreases they usually have a tough time handling pitches that they were once able to drive so I don't think it's nonsense. Typically mashers like Hafner do not age well, they just don't have the type of build that ages gracefully.
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