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Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:10 pm
by StlSluggers
Art Vandelay wrote:
brewcrew4you wrote:It is totally within the power of the Iraqi government to get this damn fixed. It was NOT within the power of the Iraqi people to overthrow Saddam - technology has increased the power of the dictator state enough that any half-way competent dictator should be able to use the army to suppress any uprisings within his/her own country.


I don't think I have as much confidence as you in what the Iraqi government is capable of. However, even assuming that the government is perfectly capable of fixing the dam, I don't really see that as relevant, because...well, they're not fixing it. It was within Saddam Husein's power to stop killing and torturing people, but that didn't stop us from taking matters into our own hands when he didn't exercise that power. We are either there for the citizens of Iraq, or we're not. We can't claim to be in Iraq for the people, then let hundreds of thousands of them die because their government isn't acting to fix a dam.

I agree. We went in there to protect their people from their government, and nothing typifies that more than this scenario.

What's important here is that we use this as a PR bonanza. Their government is cold-heartedly risking the lives of countless thousands, but we voluntarily undertook the responsibility of stopping a potential disaster that was created long before we even considered going in. If that doesn't buy goodwill, nothing ever will.

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:51 pm
by Yoda
Art Vandelay wrote:I don't think I have as much confidence as you in what the Iraqi government is capable of. However, even assuming that the government is perfectly capable of fixing the dam, I don't really see that as relevant, because...well, they're not fixing it. It was within Saddam Husein's power to stop killing and torturing people, but that didn't stop us from taking matters into our own hands when he didn't exercise that power. We are either there for the citizens of Iraq, or we're not. We can't claim to be in Iraq for the people, then let hundreds of thousands of them die because their government isn't acting to fix a dam.


Agreed. I think we need to help them if their stupid government isn't going to help its people. That is the excuse we used to invade their country and overthrow their leader. We should help.

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:18 pm
by Pacman
I suggest another approach... how about the US say to the Iraqi Government: "Build a secondary backup bridge and begin repairing or replaceing the existing one -- on YOUR dime -- starting NOW... or we're out of here (meaning all US troops).

I know it sounds extreme but it might get the job done. Also, I think the US needs to start talking tougher to the Iraqi government, who are coming off as pretty lame in my opinion, as this "rebuilding of a nation" plods along. The worst part of going into Iraq at all (after all the loss of US Troop lives, of COURSE), is that it seems like the Iraqis are in NO HURRY to become self-sufficient.


peace

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:35 pm
by brewcrew4you
I think we have more of an obligation to help people in Darfur, Cuba, North Korea, China, wherever they may be oppressed, as opposed to fixing other country's infrastructures. Those people cannot help their own situations, the Iraqis living in the shadow of the dam can.

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:36 pm
by brewcrew4you
I'd love it if it was a chance to build some honest good will over there, though. Every little bit helps.

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:38 pm
by Yoda
brewcrew4you wrote:I think we have more of an obligation to help people in Darfur, Cuba, North Korea, China, wherever they may be oppressed, as opposed to fixing other country's infrastructures. Those people cannot help their own situations, the Iraqis living in the shadow of the dam can.


Yeah but we haven't invaded their country, arrested the leader and overthrown their government like we have done with Iraq. If we are really in Iraq to help them rebuild then we should help in any way we can.

Why did you list China by the way? How are they oppressed? They are like the fastest growing country in the world. :-D

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:42 pm
by statsman88
Are any Americans in danger?

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:33 am
by StlSluggers
Pacman wrote:I suggest another approach... how about the US say to the Iraqi Government: "Build a secondary backup bridge and begin repairing or replaceing the existing one -- on YOUR dime -- starting NOW... or we're out of here (meaning all US troops).

We have just as much, if not more, to lose if we leave than they do. I doubt that tactic would work.

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:23 am
by Art Vandelay
statsman88 wrote:Are any Americans in danger?

Does that matter? People are in danger. Or are American lives worth more than Iraqi lives?

In a country that we are essentially in charge of, about a half million people are in danger because of something that we could fix relatively cheaply.

Re: Iraqi Dam In Danger of Collapse; 500,000 People at Risk

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:03 am
by 5
How about we work on fixing our infrastructure!