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HOF Debate: Roberto Alomar

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Re: HOF Debate: Roberto Alomar

Postby joshheines » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:31 pm

If you guys don't think Craig Biggio is a HOFer you must be on the rock.

He was a catcher from 1988-1991. Then he switched to 2B from 1992-2002. In 2003 he was a CF. In 2004 he was a CF and LF. Then from 2005-2007 he switched back to 2B.

He won a silver slugger as a catcher and four more as a second basemen. He was selected as an all-star as a catcher and six more times as a 2B.

From 1995-1999, as a 2B, he averaged 19 HR, 126 runs scored, 79 RBIs, and 37 SBs. He also managed about 40 doubles per year too. He had 3 seasons with a WARP3 over 10.0 and two more that were 9.0. He's got a career WARP3 of 124.8. Generally a WARP3 of 100.0+ indicates a HOFer.

He's 14th all-time in runs scored. Wrap that around your mind. Craig Biggio has only scored less runs than 13 other players in the history of baseball. By the end of his career he will also pass named Frank Robinson and Mel Ott (Who my grandfather, a NY Giants fan, called "the right hand of God"). Look when you pass the "right hand of God" in anything don't you belong in the HOF?

Kent has been a very good player for a decent period of time, but unfortunately for him, he didn't hit his stride until he was 29. He's got some monster seasons under his belt, 2000 in particular when he won the MVP. However his career really only lasted from the time he was 29-37 and in that period of time he's had some negative blips. I think he is the all-time leader at 2B in HR, but lets face it, in todays modern era where bigger players are now playing previously defensively oriented positions, is it that great of an accomplishment especially considering his 360 career HRs 66th on the active list.

Given the offensive orientation of the time when Kent played, I think he is a true borderline HOFer. I wouldn't vote for him.

Now, who is the thread about again? Oh yeah, Robbie Alomar.

Robbie was the best of the bunch and belongs in the HOF, but don't kid yourself. His glove wasn't that good. He probably didn't deserve 75% of his Gold Gloves. In fact, for his career he was an average glove, as evidence by his +6 FRAA over his career. That equates to saving about a 1/3 of a run per year with his glove over the average 2B. His bat alone gets him in.

He had some truly all-time seasons.
1993: 17 HR, 109 runs, 93 RBI, 55 SB, .326 AVG, .408 OBP, .492 SLG
1996: 22 HR, 132 runs, 94 RBI, 17 SB, .328 AVG, .411 OBP, .527 SLG
1999: 24 HR, 138 runs, 120 RBI, 37 SB, .323 AVG, .422 OBP, .533 SLG
2000: 19 HR, 111 runs, 89 RBI, 39 SB, .310 AVG, .378 OBP, .475 SLG
20001: 20 HR, 113 runs, 100 RBI, 30 SB, .336 AVG, .415 OBP, .541 SLG

Someone also referenced the fact that Robbie got caught stealing 114 as a negative thing. He's career SB rate was 80.6%. That's sick. Juan Pierre has 100 less SB and already has more CS.

His career WARP3 is 132.7. He had six seasons with a WARP3 above 10.0. He also had the highest EqA of the group with .296. Robbie's a HOFer. Biggio's a HOFer. Kent is a borderline HOFer and I wouldn't vote for him.
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Re: HOF Debate: Roberto Alomar

Postby stumpak » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:00 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
hot4tx wrote:I'm biased. I still haven't forgiven him for the spitting. I was watching that game and couldn't believe he wasn't kicked out of baseball. It was as powerful an incident as Albert Belle with the fan or Pete Rose betting on baseball.

I think spitting on someone--particularly in their face--is about as low and despicable an act as someone can do, but I don't think it really compares to Albert Belle's actions towards spectators or Rose's betting for a couple reasons. Most importantly, it doesn't affect the overall integrity of the game like having a manager gambling on games that his team is playing in. It affects the integrity of only one person. And because it involved a player and an umpire--both MLB representatives--and it happened on the field, fans have no reason to fear for their own safety because of it. I don't think that his punishment was nearly enough for it, though.

exactly. couldnt have said it better myself. alomar easily gets in. biggio gets in too. biggio has a MUCH better shot than jeff kent just because of 3000 hits if not alot of other things.

I don't agree with this. Biggio was a truely great player for only maybe 5-7 years out of 20 and merely a very good or just good player for the rest. The fact that a guy plays longer thanhe probably should to attain some arbitrary number of hits does automatically make him HOF worthy in my eyes.
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