Geez, what's Chris Young's (SDP) value?

[Laean]

Really? Did I make up that Young is going to have an ERA in the 2's for the next 5 years and that he's worth more than Peavy at this point?

I must have logged in as a few other users while I wasn't paying attention and made posts using their accounts, maybe?

P.S. I can't believe someone on this board is crying because they are called a "nut". Wow, that's some really inflammatory language right there!

a person doesn't have to use harsh language to be condescending or insulting to someone. stop taking these little jabs, like with that "crying" comment and sarcasm.

[dbstrat]

to clarify

Would I take Young over Santana or Peavy or Verlander? No.

Would I take Young over Zambrano, Oswalt, Halladay, Penny, Daiske, Beckett, Lackey, Sabathia, Willis, Webb? In a Heartbeat.

I Rank him no 4-5 going back and forth on him and Haren

Do I think if he remains healthy he will post an era IN THE 2's for 5 yrs? Yes I do, and that means that with his 1.8 this year to date, he can go 2.8, 3.1, 2.7, 3.2 and his ERA would still be in the 2's

I agree the guy is good, but those numbers you are suggesting...not that he COULD hit...but that he WILL hit, are better than 99.9% of pitchers in the past several decades. You are quoting numbers that are Santana territory because no pitcher in the past few years has touched that level since Unit and Pedro.

I just don't think you can say that for a guy with very little track record to suggest those kinds of numbers. Sure you could get lucky and he meets those, but I would bet you $1000 dollars that he doesn't do what you are suggesting and I think I would have excellent odds to collect.

[chipper]

This is hilarious! Why is Young not as good as Santana? His numbers are better, aren't they? I just want to know what kind of logic you guys are using to put him up there with Peavy, and Peavy is pretty much right up there with Santana albeit a small notch below.

I guess becasue at some point I said that Young was "up there" with guys like Peavy and Webb, and then you said I was crazy to include him with Peavy. The topic of Young/Peavy started there. Nobody brought up Santana until someone praised him.

I mean I did say top 5. I still think Young is top 5 for this year, and I suppose that does include Santana.

Incidentally, you call me abrasive but you are getting all riled up over nothing. Notice I didn't call anyone a nut?

Yes.....and I was very proud of you.



Also, I still have not heard what you have to say about comparing Young and Peavy's career numbers so far in their career, when one has been on a good team in a pitchers park against a crappy division, while the other plays on a bad team, in a hitters park, and against the DH.

[chipper]

I just don't think you can say that for a guy with very little track record to suggest those kinds of numbers.

His track record in the new, now same environment as Peavy, is "un-injured Peavy-esk". And while it's not a 10 year span, is it over almost a 2 year period now, and Young IS at the age where a pitcher comes into their own (and yes I do still realize that Peavy is 2 years younger, but he has not looked as dominant these past two years, so we'll see what level he plays at for the next 3-5 years.....and yes I still think he is good).

[dbstrat]

Also, I still have not hear what you have to say about comparing Young and Peavy's career numbers so far in their career, when one has been on a good team in a pitchers park against a crappy division, while the other plays on a bad team, in a hitters park, and against the DH.

Honestly, I don't think there is much to that aspect of the discussion. Arlington is not really considered a hitter's park anymore. It's pretty neutral. The AL West is not really an insanely tough division to be a pitcher in, IMO. The Angels and A's are well-rounded teams, not offensive juggernauts.

Sure, SD is a pitcher's paradise so there would be some effect as with the DH, but I don't think that effect is enough to put them on the same level.

My whole problem with this line of thinking is not that I think Young is a bad pitcher or Peavy is untouchable, it's that Young has just started, as you say, to come into his own and you don't throw a guy who just came into his own right to the top...lest you risk getting egg on your face a la the Beltre, Loaiza, Shelton, etc., .etc.... hypersters of the recent past. Are you old enough to remember Millwood in 1999? Absolute stud who took years before he ever sniffed that level of success again, and only once more thus far.

He needs to pay his dues before I think it makes any sense to hand him the key to the city.

[chipper]

Honestly, I don't think there is much to that aspect of the discussion.

I didn't think you would

Arlington is not really considered a hitter's park anymore.

Uh yes it is

It's pretty neutral.

Uh no it isn't, esspecially in the summer months. Bandbox.

The AL West is not really an insanely tough division to be a pitcher in, IMO. The Angels and A's are well-rounded teams, not offensive juggernauts.

But the NL (pitcher hitting 4 times a game) West.....? Come on.
That willl pad some numbers man.

Sure, SD is a pitcher's paradise so there would be some effect as with the DH, but I don't think that effect is enough to put them on the same level.

Perhaps not, but it does contridict your point about Youngs career 3.93 is not Peavy's career 3.51
I think it is.

My whole problem with this line of thinking is not that I think Young is a bad pitcher or Peavy is untouchable, it's that Young has just started, as you say, to come into his own and you don't throw a guy who just came into his own right to the top...lest you risk getting egg on your face a la the Beltre

Um, last year of no steroid testing, contract year........ 2 + 2 = 7?
This is a different situation...you know that.

Loaiza

He was pretty dominant huh, until he moved from the NL to ........wait for it.....the AL West.

(I liked that one )

Shelton

Stop

Are you old enough to remember Millwood in 1999?

Buddy I'm like 30......and my screen name is Chipper. ( ie Braves)
Yes I remember Millwood.
Also, by the way you throw around cheesey name calling, I think it's your age/maturity that is in question.....but hey thanks for another little jab while trying to make your fruitless points.

He needs to pay his dues before I think it makes any sense to hand him the key to the city.

Pay his dues? Buddy, Peavy only has a couple more years experience. And the "good year" tally looks like its about 3 vs 2, Peavy vs Young.
Peavy's only had two above .500 sub 4.00 era years before this year.
So that reasoning really doesn't play.





Hey have fun not addressing any of that stuff later....

[dbstrat]

Honestly, I don't think there is much to that aspect of the discussion.

I didn't think you would

Arlington is not really considered a hitter's park anymore.

Uh yes it is

It's pretty neutral.

Uh no it isn't, esspecially in the summer months. Bandbox.

The AL West is not really an insanely tough division to be a pitcher in, IMO. The Angels and A's are well-rounded teams, not offensive juggernauts.

But the NL (pitcher hitting 4 times a game) West.....? Come on.
That willl pad some numbers man.

Sure, SD is a pitcher's paradise so there would be some effect as with the DH, but I don't think that effect is enough to put them on the same level.

Perhaps not, but it does contridict your point about Youngs career 3.93 is not Peavy's career 3.51
I think it is.

My whole problem with this line of thinking is not that I think Young is a bad pitcher or Peavy is untouchable, it's that Young has just started, as you say, to come into his own and you don't throw a guy who just came into his own right to the top...lest you risk getting egg on your face a la the Beltre

Um, last year of no steroid testing, contract year........ 2 + 2 = 7?
This is a different situation...you know that.

Loaiza

He was pretty dominant huh, until he moved from the NL to ........wait for it.....the AL West.

(I liked that one )

Shelton

Stop

Are you old enough to remember Millwood in 1999?

Buddy I'm like 30......and my screen name is Chipper. ( ie Braves)
Yes I remember Millwood.
Also, by the way you throw around cheesey name calling, I think it's your age/maturity that is in question.....but hey thanks for another little jab while trying to make your fruitless points.

He needs to pay his dues before I think it makes any sense to hand him the key to the city.

Pay his dues? Buddy, Peavy only has a couple more years experience. And the "good year" tally looks like its about 3 vs 2, Peavy vs Young.
Peavy's only had two above .500 sub 4.00 era years before this year.
So that reasoning really doesn't play.





Hey have fun not addressing any of that stuff later....

Seriously, you come off like a fool. Just a quick rundown of your ridiculousness and then I'm done.

1. Arlington bandbox?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/par ... eason=2007

last few years it's been almost neutral

2. The AL West is not a terribly offensive division, period. You admit it and then still pretend to have a valid point.

3. Loaiza. He had his career year in the AL Central?!?? What are you even talking about??

4. Millwood. You get offended that I ask if you are old enough to have been playing fantasy in 1999? Do you know how many teenagers there are all over internet forums? How do I know if you are 15 or 50? Is there anything you don't get offended by?

5. your "good year" theory. The career numbers speak for themselves. Young still has much to prove that Peavy has already proven at every level despite being 2 years younger. You can't argue it, but I'm sure you'll continue to try to be able to exactly place Young right in between Peavy and Santana.

Have fun, junior.

[chipper]

bah

[rjforlife]

What has Peavy proven? Seriously. I don't care if Peavy was awesome in '05. He was LOUSY in 06, worse than Young, in fact, and Young has outpitched him this season. To suggest they are not comparable in fantasy value is ridiculous.

[markj11]

This is hilarious! Why is Young not as good as Santana? His numbers are better, aren't they? I just want to know what kind of logic you guys are using to put him up there with Peavy, and Peavy is pretty much right up there with Santana albeit a small notch below.

So why is it ridiculous to rank him with Santana? This doesn't make any sense?

Incidentally, you call me abrasive but you are getting all riled up over nothing. Notice I didn't call anyone a nut?

You can put Peavy up there with Santana but Young can't be put up there with Peavy. WOW.