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Studies show Death Penalty works

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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby josebach » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:03 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:oh so u mean murder in prison correct?


Yeah.
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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby AcidRock23 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:46 pm

Coppermine wrote:I cannot think of a harsher penalty


hung drawn and quartered perhaps?

I would (again) refer to The Great Wave which cites some sociological studies of turn of the 19th century social behavior that note an acute similarity between the curves for violent crime and drug abuse and the curve showing the rate of inflation. It is almost eerie but suggests that the death penalty has little to do w/ the rate of crime, which seems to have a very close link to fiscal policy. :?
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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:06 pm

I've done a considerable amount of research into the death penalty, and in my estimation the multitude of people who have been wrongly convicted, those who have been cleared after spending years on death row, the innocents who have been executed, and the inherent flaws in the system are mroe than enough for me to believe that the death penalty should be abolished (at least as currently administered).


I agree. I don't mind the concept of the death penalty. Just the way that it is administered.

deerayfan072 wrote:
TheRock wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:There have been multiple studies that show that criminals do not even think about that when they commit a crime. They do not think, hmmm if i do this i will get the chair, better not. They think, hmmm i need some money for crack and that place looks like it has money


While that is true, it is also true that violent crimes spike dramatically if there are no consequences for the behavior. I.e. the riots after Katrina. Some violent criminals are just going to be violent criminals no matter what we do. But most people will be influenced by the possibility of getting caught. The possibility of getting caught and getting killed, IMO, can make someone think twice about pulling the trigger. But there's really no way to "prove" that one way or the other.



What is the difference between putting someone in jail for LIFE, no parol ever, and killing them? Why should they be killed if we can put them away for ever, that is the consequence for your action.


Why should the taxpayers pay to feed and house someone that committed murder or something similar??
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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby AcidRock23 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:16 pm

Lofunzo wrote:Why should the taxpayers pay to feed and house someone that committed murder or something similar??


If we are going to pay to be mean we have to bear the expense. Now if they would perhaps come up with some sort of pay per view UFC meets Skil or Black and Decker, then they might be able to recoup some of it?

I am pretty liberal but I have certain conditions under which I am prepared to smuggle my french rolling pin
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into a courthouse to beat the hell out of someone who does something horrid to someone I love.
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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:28 pm

AcidRock23 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Why should the taxpayers pay to feed and house someone that committed murder or something similar??


If we are going to pay to be mean we have to bear the expense. Now if they would perhaps come up with some sort of pay per view UFC meets Skil or Black and Decker, then they might be able to recoup some of it?

I am pretty liberal but I have certain conditions under which I am prepared to smuggle my french rolling pin
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into a courthouse to beat the hell out of someone who does something horrid to someone I love.


Not sure what you are referencing but I am talking about the financial hit on taxpayers between execution or life in prison. Obviously, the latter is much more costly.
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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby AcidRock23 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:24 pm

Lofunzo wrote: Not sure what you are referencing but I am talking about the financial hit on taxpayers between execution or life in prison. Obviously, the latter is much more costly.


I'm just trying to say that once you impose a criminal justice system, you are accepting costs. The cheapest solution would be to just have the police shoot anyone they think has committed an offense, no lawyers, no judges, no court TV. So, by having a judicial branch (admittedly one invented by the lawyers composing most of the Constitutional convention...), we are all accepting some higher costs involved. I think that there are quite a few costs in the death penalty, more appeals (and prison food is quite a bit cheaper than guys who argue cases before appeals courts or the Supreme Court...), more counseling for the plunger pushers or switch flippers (another pay per view opportunity?), added expenses for last meals, extra police supervision of protesters, etc. Life is certainly more expensive but, since we are not allowing executive branch justice, we are saying that there is some value to spending more money to 'do it right' as opposed to vigilantism, if that makes sense? Perhaps the extra sadism of life in prison does have some value? I think that the preponderance of crimes worthy of life/ death penalty stuff tend to be committed by people who know each other. Which doesn't make it right but they tend to be crimes of passion, rather than opportunistic type of things. And NONE of the VT shooter/ Columbine morons have ever been caught because they are pretty much guaranteed to take themselves out. They are not deterred at all by any sort of penalty whatsoever.
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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby wrveres » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:48 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:Lo- it costs more money to execute somone than to keep them in prison for life- FACT

Yes, that does include appeals, but as has been pointed out multiple times, without these appeals innocents would be wrongfully committed

Yeah I would love hear the numbers on that.
If you mean the lawyers fees for the appeals process, that person should be getting the same appeals if he is convicted for life.
again, if we followed the Texas example. Three witness speeds up the process, this problem is solved.

What I do find funny is, that of the 17,000 homicides in 2005, there were probably 15,000 convictions.
Do you guys honetsly beleive that anything greater than 1/10 of 1 percent of them, were wrongly accused? ;7
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Re: Studies show Death Penalty works

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:49 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:Lo- it costs more money to execute somone than to keep them in prison for life- FACT

Yes, that does include appeals, but as has been pointed out multiple times, without these appeals innocents would be wrongfully committed


And I am only in favor of the death penalty in cases where there is zero doubt. I would also be interested in some proof as it pertains to the costs. Other than those books, please. I don't have the time or desire for those.
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