You shouldn't be punished for being more aggressive, but you can't simply hide behind the fact that "everyone had the same opportunity." I shouldn't have to offer five hugely lopsided trades, wait until they all get rejected, rinse, and repeat until someone makes a mistake.
And if I did employ such a strategy, I wouldn't simply say "Hey, it's your fault you didn't get there first." A vetoable deal is a vetoable deal.
That's a great point CBM and I appreciate your opionion. Let me clearify here because maybe my wording of "aggressive" isn't exactly right. I'm not trying to saturate the trade market by offering trades one after the next to finally get one through. I was just simply trying to sell a guy high.
I understand that some trades are vetoable. For example there was an instance a few years back where there was a trade involving Pujols for Lyle Overbay. That is clearly vetoable because it's a 1B for a 1B. That's not helping the team at any other position by trading Pujols. This clearly disrupts the league balance. This trade, while questionable, still has players at multiple positions where you could make the argument that each team is trying to upgrade.
My questions simply remain for you CBM and others, is it right to let the others in your league determine if a trade is fair (minus any collusion or dumping of players)? I don't think so because they are your competitors and they don't want you to succeed. I actually had a manager last year who was vetoing every trade without looking at it because he was in first place. He didn't want any other team to improve to beat him. That's not fair and is the argument that I'm addressing.
The second question is and relates to the first; how high can you sell a an "so-called experts" lower tiered player if he's playing out of his mind? I'm having this with Upton and I had it last year with Freddie Sanchez. I tried to trade Sanchez last year for a an "so-called" better player and the trade was vetoed there as well. Sanchez was an All-Star last year and had a ridiculous batting average, but he came out of no where. Since he wasn't a "big-name" I couldn't trade him for a so-called "big-name."
Again, I would love to hear more opionions on the matter from people who have played much longer than I have. I know that it's kind of a gray issue, but I think if you have a competent commish he should handle the trades not the others in the league. Anyways, thanks for all the input.