Coppermine wrote:How were they supposed to know he didn't have a knife; or a gun! Here's a screaming, yelling madman in the library with no identification and who knows what motive and you're telling me it should have been easy?
dude, you're basically advocating 'shoot first and ask questions later'. That's not how law enforcement is supposed to work under normal circumstances. If they had a particular reason to believe he had a weapon I be inclined to be ok with the tasing. Thus far we haven't heard that raised at all.
Re: 'don't mouth off to cops'. Do you say that because cops may act irrationally if you mouth off or b/c they are still deserving of respect if they have no business doing whateever they're doing that makes you consider mouthing off? Of course it is in your best interests not to regardless of the situation, but that's not the issue of principle i'm positing here.
I will be interested to see the pictures and other videos that come out on this. in the one video there were other students with phones out that had a much better vantage point.
And given the uncertainty surrounding the cuffing (nice catch whoever that was) i will retract all commments of mine regarding cuffing until the timeline of events if more firmly laid out. I will, however, stand by my assertion that multiple tasings were totally unwarranted because a single tasing can render a suspect completely incapable of following the cops' orders to stand up. Suspensions or firings are a must in this situation.
I disagree that its "shoot first, ask questions later." That oversimplifying this; this guy posed a risk the minute he refused to show ID and subsequently refused to leave. There is absolutely no reason to put yourself in that situation unless you're either crazy or dangerous... or both. The racial profiling excuse is out; this is a well-known policy at UCLA that every student was aware of.
If I'm a cop and someone tells me there is a guy in the library who has no student ID and will not leave at 11:30 at night, I'm sure as hell not going to assume he's selling cookies. At that moment, the very moment he refused to leave, in my opinion, every student in that library was in danger. There is no rational reason for it, and if he did it to make a point, he sure picked the wrong time and place.
We're also over exaggerating the effects of a taser. If this guy is on the ground and refusing to leave, I would bet he'd be injured far worse if it came to a struggle of him vs. 3-5 police officers.
And about the whole "medical condition" think; the student is filing a lawsuit against UCLA and nothing in it says anything about a medical condition or adverse health effects from the tasing. The lawyer stated today that he has a contusion on his right side from the taser; and that's it. If the taser was doing any kind of substantial damage, do you think he'd be yelling about the patriot act after getting tased?
As for the "don't mouth off to cops" argument; come on man, again, this guy was making a scene and egging on the cops. Late at night, no ID, refusing to show it anyway, refusing to leave, making a scene then yelling, screaming even... this is a crazy person. Like I said, if he was trying to make a point, it was idiotic.
The handcuffs thing is a big deal; if he was cuffed then tased, then I agree it was unnecessary and I'll admit that I was wrong in this. What it doesn't do is make excuses for this kid. He acted in a manner that was so irrational that I can't imagine how myself or any one of you would have reacted.
But I watched the whole video and he was tased shortly after he started screaming; and it seems he started screaming right about the time the cops tried to physically subdue him.
If you're a battery, you're either working or you're dead....