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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:08 pm
by raiders_umpire
orange12 wrote:Interesting discussion. But talk is cheap after all, and using subjective words like "elite" doesn't mean much fantasy-wise. Time for everyone to put their money where their mouths are. If a keeper league was started today, are you willing to drafting Miggy ahead of Santana? Ahead of Pujols?




Sure I am game. Mcab would be my 2nd overall pick in a keeper starting today, only behind Pujols. Last year he would have been my 3rd only behind Pujols and Arod, but this year he skips over Arod and is my #2 pick.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:20 pm
by Secret Avatar
"Time for everyone to put their money where their mouths are. If a keeper league was started today, are you willing to drafting Miggy ahead of Santana? Ahead of Pujols?"

As I said earlier in this post, I'm not as sold on MCab as most. No chance in hell would I ever take him ahead of Pujols. I would probably take him ahead of Santana b/c I don't believe in drafting SPs that early. Here's a list of guys I would take ahead of MCab in a keeper draft:

Pujols
Arod
Tex
Ortiz
Crawford
Beltran
Holliday (yes, I would!)
Carlos Lee (yes, I would!)
Reyes
Wright
Vladdy
Soriano


I would consider taking guys like Hafner and Sizemore ahead of MCab as well

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:24 pm
by Yoda
Secret Avatar wrote:"Time for everyone to put their money where their mouths are. If a keeper league was started today, are you willing to drafting Miggy ahead of Santana? Ahead of Pujols?"

As I said earlier in this post, I'm not as sold on MCab as most. No chance in hell would I ever take him ahead of Pujols. I would probably take him ahead of Santana b/c I don't believe in drafting SPs that early. Here's a list of guys I would take ahead of MCab in a keeper draft:

Pujols
Arod
Tex
Ortiz
Crawford
Beltran
Holliday (yes, I would!)
Carlos Lee (yes, I would!)
Reyes
Wright
Vladdy
Soriano


I would consider taking guys like Hafner and Sizemore ahead of MCab as well


What more proof do you need to sell you the idea that MCab is elite? Just in the last two seasons, as a 22, 23 yo he was 4th in the NL in RC and OPS+...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:28 pm
by Secret Avatar
"What more proof do you need to sell you the idea that MCab is elite?"

I never said he wasn't elite. Read my posts above. My beef was with the dude who said he'd go 350-40 in 2007. I see no reason to believe that will happen in 2007 and every reason to believe it won't. Again, read my posts above.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:58 pm
by Yoda
Secret Avatar wrote:"What more proof do you need to sell you the idea that MCab is elite?"

I never said he wasn't elite. Read my posts above. My beef was with the dude who said he'd go 350-40 in 2007. I see no reason to believe that will happen in 2007 and every reason to believe it won't. Again, read my posts above.


There are plenty of reasons to believe that he can hit 40 HRs...

2006 Top 10 OPS+ and HR in ():
Hafner (42)
Pujols (49)
Howard (58)
Ramirez (35)
Ortiz (54)
Berkman (45)
Cabrera (26)
Thome (42)
Giambi (37)
Beltran (41)

Also, Miggy as a 21, 22 yo hit 33 HRs. I think 06 was somewhat of a fluke in terms of a low HR total.

Re: Miggy will reach elite status in 2007

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:13 pm
by The Jury
sportsaddict wrote:Mark my words, Miguel Cabrera is going to have a huge year next year. To the tune of a possible .350/40/135. His .339/26/114 were not bad last year, considering he was projected to bat lower than 300 with some saying he wouldnt even get to 100 rbis. His producion was steady but didn't really carry a fantasy team.

Next year, Cabrera will carry fantasy teams. He will go in probably the early 2nd round (early 1st maybe?), and whoever lands him will be lucky. With the FLA lineup starting to take shape with Ramirez, Uggla, Hermida, Jacobs, and Willingham, these guys can only get better. Cabrera is hitting for AVG now and the power is about to go up. I wouldnt rule out 40 HRs; I actually think it is likely he hits 40. And I think the RBIS are going to be spectacular next year.

What do you guys think?


Going into 2006, I think the general consensus was that if any one of his stats would remain the same, it would be his BA. There was a lot of speculation that his RBI and R would go down, and he'd get walked more, but I don't think many people projected his BA to take much of a hit. He IS a .310+ hitter, so he's not going to be anywhere near "under .300."

I would be more interested in why you think his HR total will increase next year. I don't really care for "I'm calling it now - Miguel Cabrera hits 40 in 2007!" as I'm more interested in the reasons why you think it will happen. Personally, I see no reason to believe that he will hit 40 next year. I do feel that, given the talent has showed thus far, he may develop into a 40+ HR hitter. But until he does that, my money would be on 30-35 HR from him in 2007, with pretty much the same numbers from 2006, which aren't far off from 2005.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:38 pm
by Secret Avatar
"There are plenty of reasons to believe that he can hit 40 HRs"

Again, you should actually read my posts before you comment. I didn't say there was no reason to believe he would ever hit 40 HR. I said there was no reason to think he would hit 350-40 in 2007. That was the original post on this threat and that was what I was responding to. My reasons for thinking that he won't hit 350-40 in 2007 are posted above for the world to see.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:46 pm
by Yoda
Secret Avatar wrote:"There are plenty of reasons to believe that he can hit 40 HRs"

Again, you should actually read my posts before you comment. I didn't say there was no reason to believe he would ever hit 40 HR. I said there was no reason to think he would hit 350-40 in 2007. That was the original post on this threat and that was what I was responding to. My reasons for thinking that are posted above for the world to see.


I understand what you are saying. I think Miggy's chances of hitting 40 HR in 07 is greater than not. Why? Because he is maturing as a hitter and his power will only get better.

2006 Top 10 OPS+ and HR in ():
Hafner (42)
Pujols (49)
Howard (58)
Ramirez (35)
Ortiz (54)
Berkman (45)
Cabrera (26)
Thome (42)
Giambi (37)
Beltran (41)

This list shows that of the top 10 players in OPS+, only Ramirez, Cabrera and Giambi failed to hit 40 HRs. MCab's total is very flukish looking at this. That being said, I think he will be very close to if not over 40 HR in 07.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:07 pm
by Secret Avatar
"I understand what you are saying. I think Miggy's chances of hitting 40 HR in 07 is greater than not. Why? Because he is maturing as a hitter and his power will only get better."

I really don't see it for 2007 -- unless he trades average for power -- but I take your point.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:39 pm
by TB13
raiders_umpire wrote:Mcab would be my 2nd overall pick in a keeper starting today, only behind Pujols. Last year he would have been my 3rd only behind Pujols and Arod, but this year he skips over Arod and is my #2 pick.

Agreed. He is as good of a hitting protegy as anyone not named Pujols. He was the #1 3b in my league this year (OPS counted). As the lineup around him improves, so too will he. His stats (BA, OBP thus, OPS) have dramatically increased every year. I have no idea of when he will hit 40 dingers, but that day is coming. He will be a consistent 30 homer guy, along with excellent other stats.