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HoF Debate: Don Mattingly

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Postby bigh0rt » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:45 am

It's not quite Sal Fasano level, but it makes the turn into handlebar territory :-D

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Postby Tavish » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:51 pm

bigh0rt wrote:It's not quite Sal Fasano level, but it makes the turn into handlebar territory :-D


I don't think you can consider Fasano's or Mattingly's to be a handlebar. I would call Fasano's a Fu-Manchu and Mattingly's a moustachio.

Now this is a handlebar.

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Postby ukrneal » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:58 pm

Mashug wrote:
noseeum wrote:
Mashug wrote:Reggie: In my opinion he was the most overrated player in baseball history. Sorry fellow Yankee fans, but Reggie was a one dimentional player who had a couple of great post season series. He sucked in the outfield and alienated his teamates. He was a .265 hitter and holds the alltime record for K's. I don't care about the +500 hrs. Dave Kingman just fell short and you wouldn't put him in, would you?

I don't think you realize how much of a defensive era the 70s were. You should go back and check Reggie compared to his contemporaries.

12 time all star.
10 times top 10 in OPS. 6 times top 5.
10 times top 10 in RBI.
11 times top ten in adjusted ops +, 4 times number 1.

He also happened to be the leader of the A's when they won two World Series in a row.

The guy's a stud. No question.

I rememeber him very well. Watched him play and loved what he did for the Yanks is the post season. It's hard to keep him out, but the man made it in almost unanimously on his first ballot. That's not right. Again, when he played it was all about Reggie and to hell with his teamates. Hit .300 once (barely) and he was a terrible outfielder. I remmeber the trotting after balls in the outfeild very well. I also remember defying the manager when asked to take pitches and move runners over. I don't think jackasses like that belong in the HOF.

I detested Reggie, but he is definitely one of the legends of the game. The man hit 560 HR at a time when it meant something. And yeah, he only hit .300 once, but people didn't reach .300 in the '70's either. The league average ranged from .232 to .267. And he was usually above that. I can find only 2-3 players from that period who had a better ONP+ than he did. HE could steal (which people forget) and he intimidated the opposition. He had an MVP, he led the league in slugging 3 times, Runs and OBP twice, HR 4 times, and adjusted OPS+ 4 times. Mike Schmidt, generally considered the best 3B of all time, also only hit higher than .300 once. If that is the criteria, than he has to go to. You absolutley have to consider the tme period the player was playing. He wasn't a great outfileder, but he wasn't terrible.

And it sounds like your dislike of him is coloring your opinion. Look at another player considered by many the best at his position: Johnny Bench. He only hit over .300 in a year when he played 52 games. Or Gary Carter, another that got in with low average. Or look at Joe Morgan, often considered the best 2b ever. He hit over .300 only twice. Sure, these guys were better at defense, but that shouldn't take away from Reggie, who was just average. He had other factors that compensated.

And I sure do remember his poor behavior, but it wasn't anything that we hadn't seen so bad or so awful that you could keep him out for it. And it was Martin who lunged at him if I remember correctly.
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