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Abstinence-only education

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Postby Coppermine » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:54 pm

The only reason why sex is built up as this big, scary, unusual thing carrying loads of emotional baggage, is because it's built up that way by schools, churchs and parents. Yet our inherent biology drives us to have sex, particularly in those teenage years when things are most confusing.

If teenagers were allowed to make their own decisions without demonizing premarital sex as a horrible sin, then there wouldn't be this "emotional baggage." It's not like those after school specials where Suzy is being pressured into having sex by her boyfriend, and when she does, she falls into a deep depression. It's like those movies where someone smokes a joint and starts running around shooting people. Are you kidding? Have you ever seen someone after smoking a joint? The only thing I have to worry about is them getting to my doritos.

Anyway, back to sex. Is it really God's instruction to not have sex before marriage, or is that an church-institution? I'm not even sure, is there a passage somewhere? I know that pretty much every major religion condemns it, but I want to know the Biblical reasoning; rather than just an attempt to keep things in line with the so-called morals of those who run churches and such.
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:55 pm

I hope I get me some premarital sex tonight!!!
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:58 pm

acsguitar wrote:I hope I get me some premarital sex tonight!!!


I don't know about that, but I do know your mom is getting extramarital sex tonight....


I really couldn't resist.
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Postby chadlincoln » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:40 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:As a youth pastor, I'll tell the kids in our group sex is good, but not outside of marriage and God set it up that way.


If "God" set it up that way the species wouldn't have lasted long enough to invent marraige. "God" set it up to feel good so we'd do it as much as possible.
Humans didn't invent marriage. When God created Eve for Adam, he stated the verse that is quoted a lot at weddings "For this cause a man will leave his father and mother, and will be joined to his wife. The two will become one flesh."
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Postby chadlincoln » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:41 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex. That's how God intended us to sustain human life on this planet. Sex is not the problem.

I see there being two reasons not to have sex before marriage:

1. Moral reasons
2. Physical reasons

Having sex outside of marriage is a moral issue. If you do consider yourself to be moral and are trying to follow God's instructions, you shouldn't have sex before you're married to a person of the opposite sex because that is what we're commanded to do.

If you don't consider yourself to have morals in this area, then having sex outside of marriage isn't a moral issue for you, it's more of a physical consequence issue.


If you are one on the side of abstinence because it protects you against STD's, unplanned pregnancy, emotional baggage, etc. Promote abstinence on the grounds that you'll not have those consequences.

As a youth pastor, I'll tell the kids in our group sex is good, but not outside of marriage and God set it up that way. So where is the line?


i dont know, to me, that would be like buying a car without test-driving it
Would you rather have a new car or one with 120,000 miles on it?
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Postby chadlincoln » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:52 pm

Coppermine wrote:The only reason why sex is built up as this big, scary, unusual thing carrying loads of emotional baggage, is because it's built up that way by schools, churchs and parents. Yet our inherent biology drives us to have sex, particularly in those teenage years when things are most confusing.

Do we have a sex drive? Sure. Like I said, sex is good. I'm sure you've heard the example that sex is like fire- in a stove- good, in the rest of your house-bad. So you're saying there is no emotional attatchment that takes place during sex? There are those who claim to have 'inherent biology' to murder people. Does that make it ok since they have a drive to do it? Pediphiles had a drive. Is that wrong? Rapists have a drive. Is that wrong? The point I'm trying to make here is that just because our body desires things doesn't make them right to do.

Coppermine wrote:If teenagers were allowed to make their own decisions without demonizing premarital sex as a horrible sin, then there wouldn't be this "emotional baggage." It's not like those after school specials where Suzy is being pressured into having sex by her boyfriend, and when she does, she falls into a deep depression. It's like those movies where someone smokes a joint and starts running around shooting people. Are you kidding? Have you ever seen someone after smoking a joint? The only thing I have to worry about is them getting to my doritos.
Premarital sex is a sin. Lying is a sin. God doesn't rank sin. Sin is sin. I wouldn't call it horrible.

Coppermine wrote:Anyway, back to sex. Is it really God's instruction to not have sex before marriage, or is that an church-institution? I'm not even sure, is there a passage somewhere? I know that pretty much every major religion condemns it, but I want to know the Biblical reasoning; rather than just an attempt to keep things in line with the so-called morals of those who run churches and such.

Ex 20:14- You shall not commit adultery.

Matt 5:27-28- "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

A book I have in my Bible study software defines adultery as this:

ADULTERY- A married woman cohabiting with a man not her husband. The prevalent polygamy in patriarchal times rendered it impossible to stigmatize as adultery the cohabitation of a married man with another besides his wife. But as Jesus saith, "from the beginning it was not so," for "He which made male and female said, They twain shall be one flesh." (a lot of thee's and thou's in there, but I wanted to quote it word for word. Sorry it's in Christianese.)
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Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:57 pm

chadlincoln wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex. That's how God intended us to sustain human life on this planet. Sex is not the problem.

I see there being two reasons not to have sex before marriage:

1. Moral reasons
2. Physical reasons

Having sex outside of marriage is a moral issue. If you do consider yourself to be moral and are trying to follow God's instructions, you shouldn't have sex before you're married to a person of the opposite sex because that is what we're commanded to do.

If you don't consider yourself to have morals in this area, then having sex outside of marriage isn't a moral issue for you, it's more of a physical consequence issue.


If you are one on the side of abstinence because it protects you against STD's, unplanned pregnancy, emotional baggage, etc. Promote abstinence on the grounds that you'll not have those consequences.

As a youth pastor, I'll tell the kids in our group sex is good, but not outside of marriage and God set it up that way. So where is the line?


i dont know, to me, that would be like buying a car without test-driving it
Would you rather have a new car or one with 120,000 miles on it?


i'd take one with 60K ;-7
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Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:03 pm

chadlincoln wrote:
Coppermine wrote:If teenagers were allowed to make their own decisions without demonizing premarital sex as a horrible sin, then there wouldn't be this "emotional baggage." It's not like those after school specials where Suzy is being pressured into having sex by her boyfriend, and when she does, she falls into a deep depression. It's like those movies where someone smokes a joint and starts running around shooting people. Are you kidding? Have you ever seen someone after smoking a joint? The only thing I have to worry about is them getting to my doritos.
Premarital sex is a sin. Lying is a sin. God doesn't rank sin. Sin is sin. I wouldn't call it horrible.[quote]

This is exactly why I hate when religion gets brought into this argument (or most arguments for that matter). You act as if it is an undisputed truth that premarital sex is a sin (for the sake of this discussion I'll grant you that there is, indeed, such thing as "sin"). Instead of saying, "I think premarital sex is a sin" or "I would not practice premarital sex because my beliefs tell me it's sinful," you say, simply, "premarital sex is a sin."

Your religious beliefs should not determine other people's actions.
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Postby chadlincoln » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:14 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:
Coppermine wrote:If teenagers were allowed to make their own decisions without demonizing premarital sex as a horrible sin, then there wouldn't be this "emotional baggage." It's not like those after school specials where Suzy is being pressured into having sex by her boyfriend, and when she does, she falls into a deep depression. It's like those movies where someone smokes a joint and starts running around shooting people. Are you kidding? Have you ever seen someone after smoking a joint? The only thing I have to worry about is them getting to my doritos.
Premarital sex is a sin. Lying is a sin. God doesn't rank sin. Sin is sin. I wouldn't call it horrible.

This is exactly why I hate when religion gets brought into this argument (or most arguments for that matter). You act as if it is an undisputed truth that premarital sex is a sin (for the sake of this discussion I'll grant you that there is, indeed, such thing as "sin"). Instead of saying, "I think premarital sex is a sin" or "I would not practice premarital sex because my beliefs tell me it's sinful," you say, simply, "premarital sex is a sin."

Your religious beliefs should not determine other people's actions.
You're right, my beliefs shouldn't determine how you act just like yours don't determine how I act. I thought that when I post, you would obviously note that it is what I believe. So now do I have to post my words and have the disclaimer that this is what I believe? It's my post. You should know it's my opinion and belief. I'll state what I believe in any manner I want to just like you can state in whatever manner you want to. I say it's a sin because that's what I believe. You say it isn't because that's what you believe. I know that's your belief. I don't have to ask you to be 'clear' or politically correct. I have thick skin.

Religion got brought into the arguement because those are two major sides of the debate- don't do it for moral/religious reasons or don't do it for physical reasons. I posted both. I'm not trying to offend you. I'm posting what I believe and I don't expect you to believe what I do or to live how I live.
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:40 pm

I think Chad is just trying to show both sides. He's telling us its a sin from his point of view but if its not a sin from ours then so be it. It's all what you believe. I'm a sinner if I'm a christian and I'm not if I'm well me.

Chad isn't very pushy with religion IMO so I understand.

Anyways I would rather have a car with 0 miles yes. But I also don't wanna pay 60 grand for a new car when I can spend 25 grand for one that runs well and is still pretty sweet
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