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Abstinence-only education

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Postby Coppermine » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:18 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:I think this should be fine for a PG-13 crowd. There are no curse words, at least. But if not, I apologize. I thought it was trenchant and funny and pretty much sums up my view on the subject.

Bill Maher wrote:Abstinence pledges make you horny. In a setback for the morals/values crowd, a new eight-year study just released reveals that American teenagers who take virginity pledges wind up with just as many STD's as the other kids. But that's not all. "Taking the pledge" also makes a teenage girl six times more likely to perform oral sex, and four times more likely to allow anal. Which leads me to an important question: where were these pledges when I was in high school?

So, seriously, when I was a teenager, the only kids having anal intercourse, were the ones who missed. My idea of lubrication was oiling my bike chain. If I had known I could have been getting porn-star sex the same year I took Algebra 2 - simply by joining up with the Christian right - I'd have been so down with Jesus, they would have had to pry me out of the pew.

And, let me tell you, there is a lot worse things than teenagers having sex. Namely, teenagers not having sex. Here is something you'll never hear: "That suicide bomber blew himself up because he was having too much sex. Sex, sex, sex, nonstop, all that crazy Arab ever had was sex, and look what happened." But among the puritans here of the 21st century, the less said to kids about sex, the better. Because people who talk about peepees are "potty-mouths."

And so, armed with limited knowledge and believing that regular, vaginal intercourse to be either immaculate or filthy dirty - these kids did with their pledge what everybody does with contracts. They found loopholes. Two of them, to be exact.

Is there any greater irony than the fact that the Christian right actually got their precious little adolescent daughters to say to their freshly-scrubbed boyfriends, "Please, I want to remain pure for my wedding night, so only in the ass... And then I'll blow you, I promise." Well, at least these kids are really thinking outside the box.


Like him or hate him (and I know a lot of people really hate him), that is hilarious.
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Postby chadlincoln » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:22 pm

There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex. That's how God intended us to sustain human life on this planet. Sex is not the problem.

I see there being two reasons not to have sex before marriage:

1. Moral reasons
2. Physical reasons

Having sex outside of marriage is a moral issue. If you do consider yourself to be moral and are trying to follow God's instructions, you shouldn't have sex before you're married to a person of the opposite sex because that is what we're commanded to do.

If you don't consider yourself to have morals in this area, then having sex outside of marriage isn't a moral issue for you, it's more of a physical consequence issue.


If you are one on the side of abstinence because it protects you against STD's, unplanned pregnancy, emotional baggage, etc. Promote abstinence on the grounds that you'll not have those consequences.

As a youth pastor, I'll tell the kids in our group sex is good, but not outside of marriage and God set it up that way. So where is the line?
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Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:30 pm

chadlincoln wrote:As a youth pastor, I'll tell the kids in our group sex is good, but not outside of marriage and God set it up that way.


If "God" set it up that way the species wouldn't have lasted long enough to invent marraige. "God" set it up to feel good so we'd do it as much as possible.
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Postby mak1277 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:34 pm

chadlincoln wrote:group sex is good


I couldn't agree more...oh, crud, that's not the point you were making... :-b just having a little fun.

Anyway, I firmly believe that schools should teach math, social studies, reading, etc. I'm all for health class, but it's absolutely the parents' responsibility to provide moral and ethical values for their children. Even in highly religious families, I contend that morals come from the parents, not the church. It is, after all, the parents that are bringing a religious background to their children.

For the record, I'm a godless Conservative (yes, we exist).
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:36 pm

Here are my reasons for not having sex before marriage...

?

OK, I don't have any. I don't have moral or physical baggage. i don't think it's harmful in any way. In fact, I think it's great if people just conduct themselves as responsible, willing participants. Yeah, if you, personally, have a moral reason against having sex, then don't. But then, like Bill Maher pointed out, a lot of those teenagers are just substituting intercourse for oral and anal sex. Is that less immoral? There aren't many pastors out there telling teenagers "don't do it in the butt either." It's absurd. Why bring it up if it's going to b a huge moral consequence discussion?

If a teenager doesn't have sex, there are two reason for it:

1. No one will have sex with them
2. They made a personal, conscious decision not to

It has nothing to do with what anyone told them, they made the decision. And from the statistics i've heard, teens like that are in the vast minority. Abstinance only education just confuses the majority of teenagers who are going to have sex at some point. We need to face reality and either ditch abstinance only, or at least stop penalizing states for not teaching it, because Texans sure aren't going to start showing their kids how to put condoms on bananas.

Why aren't we focusing on things like pregnancy and infections? These are the only true consequences of sex, and they're avoidable; whether you have sex or not!!! Use a condom damn it and make birth control more accessable.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:37 pm

mak1277 wrote:For the record, I'm a godless Conservative (yes, we exist).


8-o

1 in a billion?
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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:41 pm

chadlincoln wrote:As a youth pastor, I'll tell the kids in our group sex is good, but not outside of marriage and God set it up that way. So where is the line?


I think the line is where what you're telling the kids causes damage to society. From Mookie's original post:

Students who receive abstinence-only education are less likely to use condoms or contraceptives and 88% of student who take a viginity pledge still end up having pre-marital sex studies show.


At what point do you admit that although abstinence-only education is a noble idea, it is doing far more harm than good? That's where you draw the line. You draw the line when the religious right says that we shouldn't allow a vaccine for cancer because it will encourage premarital sex. I think the public good always trumps personal belief. That's the line.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:42 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:
mak1277 wrote:For the record, I'm a godless Conservative (yes, we exist).


8-o

1 in a billion?


I'm extremely conservative on most social issues, and although I'm not sure I'd describe myself as 'godless,' I definitely don't prescribe to the Christian ideal of God that most people in this country seem to identify with.

So I guess that makes it 2 in a billion.
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Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:43 pm

chadlincoln wrote:There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex. That's how God intended us to sustain human life on this planet. Sex is not the problem.

I see there being two reasons not to have sex before marriage:

1. Moral reasons
2. Physical reasons

Having sex outside of marriage is a moral issue. If you do consider yourself to be moral and are trying to follow God's instructions, you shouldn't have sex before you're married to a person of the opposite sex because that is what we're commanded to do.

If you don't consider yourself to have morals in this area, then having sex outside of marriage isn't a moral issue for you, it's more of a physical consequence issue.


If you are one on the side of abstinence because it protects you against STD's, unplanned pregnancy, emotional baggage, etc. Promote abstinence on the grounds that you'll not have those consequences.

As a youth pastor, I'll tell the kids in our group sex is good, but not outside of marriage and God set it up that way. So where is the line?


i dont know, to me, that would be like buying a car without test-driving it
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:51 pm

That Bill Mahr thing is hilarious.

Sometimes i think back to my college days and just wish I had some more tang ;-D I think I did well but if I hadn't been such a pot head I woulda scored way way more
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