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Ozzie shoots off at the mouth again

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Postby Apollo » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:32 am

A few varied points:

1) I believe--and I'm not sure about this--that, as a public figure, Marrioti would have to prove that he sustained actual quantifiable damages and that Ozzie acted in "reckless disregard" for the truth. In this case, I'm almost certain Marrioti would be unable to prove he suffered quantifiable damages as a result of Ozzie's actions.

That said, while this is probably not a case of legal slander, Ozzie was just being an offensive jerk for no good reason. In truth, it probably isn't as bad as the last time he spouted off, when he pointed at a guy and said "Hey, look at that guy! He's a homosexual! He's a child molester!"

The fact that this is the second time he has publicly disrespected homosexuals should almost certainly earn him a suspension. He can play the ignorance, poor choice of words card once, but not twice.

2) Kudos to miner on his perspective of his own team. I think I've disagreed with you a lot, but you're right on the ball here. You can love your team and still recognize when a good manager acts like an idiot.

3) Going back to the safety thing:

Apparently you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm all for personal protection and certainly against "intent to injure," but the protection that batters wear to the plate gives them an unfair advantage over the pitcher. Guys hang over the plate because IT DOESN'T HURT TO GET HIT WITH THE BALL! Why do you think Biggio has been hit 8 bazillion times in his career?


I think it would be a lot easier to just start enforcing the front of the batter's box. You can keep people off the plate without risking injury if you just enforce the rules that are already there. I can certainly sympathize with the desire to protect oneself, and I know if I were a batter, I'd want one of those massive elbow braces myself. I would hate to see someone's arm broken because we want to protect the spirit of the game.
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Postby wrveres » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:24 am

10 pages of you guys defending this bigot ... absolutley amazing ..
Nothing about this place shocks me anymore
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Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:46 am

wrveres wrote:10 pages of you guys defending this bigot ... absolutley amazing ..
Nothing about this place shocks me anymore


Is bigot really the correct descriptor though?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bigot

If he were so intolerant he would not be apologizing the way he has:

"I shouldn't have mentioned the name that was mentioned, but I'm not going to back off of Jay," Guillen said, using another profanity to describe Mariotti, a contributor on ESPN's "Around The Horn."

"The word I used, I should have used something different. A lot of people's feelings were hurt and I didn't mean it that way."

Personally I've lost even more respect for Mariotti and think he's on a personally biased, agenda based mission.

Guillen is more emotional than most, if not any manager ever. I have no doubt he is a good hearted person. He should be punished for what he's said, but not ostracized.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:19 am

Did you actually see his apology? It was the least-sincere "apology" I've ever seeen. He used air quotes when he said he was sorry for all the people who were offended. haha.
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Postby josebach » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:42 am

wrveres wrote:10 pages of you guys defending this bigot ... absolutley amazing ..
Nothing about this place shocks me anymore


As a kid growing up, my friends and I called each other fags all the time and not one of us had anything against gay people or meant it hatefully. As I got older, I came to realize that some words offend regardless as to whether or not you intend them to so I stopped saying them. Ozzie hasn't come to that realization yet. Ozzie doesn't act like a grown man, he acts like a child. That's his biggest problem. I think he completely deserves any punishment that comes to him. Not because he's a bigot, but because he needs to learn that there are certain rules you have to live by in American society and he's not above them.

Could Ozzie be a bigot? Absolutely, but there's no way at all you can tell just because he called a reporter he obviously hates a "fag".

Wrveres, even if you do judge Ozzie and come to the conclusion that he's a bigot, do you honestly think that everybody here sticking up for him thinks he's a bigot? Or that they themselves are bigots?If not, why would you make the comment; "nothing about this place shocks me anymore"? Do you really believe that you're above everybody else on this site or have I simply misunderstood you time and time again?
Last edited by josebach on Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby markj11 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:59 am

josebach wrote:
wrveres wrote:10 pages of you guys defending this bigot ... absolutley amazing ..
Nothing about this place shocks me anymore


As a kid growing up, my friends and I called each other fags all the time and not one of us had anything against gay people or meant it hatefully. As I got older, I came to realize that some words offend regardless as to whether or not you intend them to so I stopped saying them. Ozzie hasn't come to that realization yet. Ozzie doesn't act like a grown man. He acts like a child. That's his biggest problem. I think he completely deserves any punishment that comes to him. Not because he's a bigot, but because he needs to learn that there are certain rules you have to live by in society and he's not above them.

Could Ozzie be a bigot? Absolutely, but there's no way at all you can tell just because he called a reporter he obviously hates a "fag".


Good post. I think that is all that needed to be said and not bring up all the PC mess. I was never defending Ozzie I just fighting PC.
I ain't askin' nobody for nothin, If I can't get it on my own. - Charlie Daniels
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Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:16 am

you guys all need to go to Sensitivity Training with Ozzie ;-7
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Postby moochman » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:51 am

RugbyD wrote:
moochman wrote:Ozzie has also told his team that Mariotti deserves no respect. If that isn't creating a hostile workplace I don't know what is. .

irrelevant. Mariotti has no right to any clubhouse or private venue that does not grant him that right. In any venue that does grant him access, he is a guest and can leave at any time if he doesn't like what's going on. His workplace extends only as far as the Sun-Times building.


I disagree. The White Sox have not dis-allowed access to Mariotti. He has the right to go into the Chicago facitilities in the course of business. Ozzies pure hatred for him, coupled with his open distain have helped to create a hostile environment.

As for the Rocker comparison, I say Ozzie's spewage is much worse than Rocker's comments. Listen to Ozzie's apology. He is only sorry for calling him a "bleeping f**got", he wishes he used different words. Words for what? Words that would tell people that he had no respect for this "piece of s*** Mariotte'. So what does that say for his feelings toward the homosexual population? While Rocker said that he would feel uncomfortable having to ride in a subway, Ozzie used that population as an example of what would be a most dispicable person, " a piece of s***". Who isn't a man, as Ozzie goes onto to refer to Mariotti during his childlike apology. Hard to believe that Budlite and mlb didn't levy a suspension for this incident.

I find that attitude much more disturbing. I don't know that that makes Ozzie a bigot in the literal sense of the word, but in the spirit in which it was used it certainly leaves no doubt that he has preconceived notion regarding a certain population. Quack quack Ozzie.
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Postby jnormy » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:48 pm

moochman wrote:As for the Rocker comparison, I say Ozzie's spewage is much worse than Rocker's comments. Listen to Ozzie's apology. He is only sorry for calling him a "bleeping f**got", he wishes he used different words. Words for what? Words that would tell people that he had no respect for this "piece of s*** Mariotte'. So what does that say for his feelings toward the homosexual population? While Rocker said that he would feel uncomfortable having to ride in a subway, Ozzie used that population as an example of what would be a most dispicable person, " a piece of s***". Who isn't a man, as Ozzie goes onto to refer to Mariotti during his childlike apology. Hard to believe that Budlite and mlb didn't levy a suspension for this incident.

I find that attitude much more disturbing. I don't know that that makes Ozzie a bigot in the literal sense of the word, but in the spirit in which it was used it certainly leaves no doubt that he has preconceived notion regarding a certain population. Quack quack Ozzie.


Guess you forgot Rocker's "queers with AIDS" comment and his take on people from other cultures: "I'm not a fan of foreigners... how the hell did they get into this country?" And how about this gem: "So many dumb asses don't know how to drive in this town (New York). They turn from the wrong lane. They go 20 miles per hour. It makes me want -- Look! Look at this idiot! I guarantee you she's a Japanese woman."

So you're right, Ozzie and Rocker ARE different... ol' John has preconceived notions about a whole BUNCH of populations, not just one.

P.S. Not defending Ozzie by any means... he definitely NEEDS the sensitivity training, and a muzzle!
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Postby Laean » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:27 pm

this is pretty ridiculous. ozzie guillen doesn't deserve this much attention, but i guess it just goes to show he's good at what he does, which is being a controversial attention-whore.

i've already explained why what ozzie said is offensive a while back, but i'll add this.

i bet no one here (including me) who's "attacking" ozzie gives a damn about JM. that's not the point. the point is that whether you think you're being offensive or not when you say the words nigger/fag/gook/etc, if a black/gay/asian/etc person hearing that finds it offensive, then it is offensive. what guillen had said was not right to homosexuals.

also, if ozzie guillen had used the word "nigger" instead of "fag" in that interview, i guarantee you 100% that there would be a major uproar. so why isn't there here? obviously, JM is as black as he is gay (which is to say not very), so it's the same situation. should black people who hear that interview not find it offensive?

i don't want to get into the legal or technical or whatever ways of looking at what had ozzie said which this thread has gotten into lately, but morally, it is wrong.
Last edited by Laean on Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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