J35J wrote:PlayingWithFire wrote:J35J wrote:garf112 wrote:Zito is God wrote:garf112 wrote:Zito is God wrote:The thing is, I agree that Ks are arguably the most solid stat because you are not giving the hitter even a chance to beat out a grounder or get a sac fly etc. However, there are many pitchers who simply are not K pitchers, yet do a solid job on the mound. This is where WHIP comes in. There are so many sinkerballer pitchers who just get infinite groundouts during their starts but have a low K ratio so they get passed by.
Doesn't this make gb/fb ratio the most important stat? Not WHIP
It actually could be debated that it is.
I think it is debatable, but you can have a very good ratio and still give up a ton of hits and runs being a sinkerballer. You don't HAVE to give up HRs to be a bad pitcher. GB/FB is a big reason I traded Vazques away (I am regretting it now because the guy I got for him...well, lets just say I REALLY needed a shortstop). Yet I will say again that WHIP means you aren't giving up the hits period, GB/FB could still have a high WHIP and is simply giving up a lot of grounders.
Basically to be a successful pitcher you need to do three things:
1) Strike people out
2) Keep people from hitting the ball in the air
3) Limit your walks
In that order. If you can do all three, you are an elite pitcher. If you break pitchers into categories, the best strike guys out and have a high gb%.... There are about 8 categories and the worst are flyball pitchers that don't strike anybody out.
WHIP has too much luck involved in it. Any pitcher will allow balls to fall in for hits at about a 30% rate.
If you are unable to find these stats, you might be better off just going with WHIP, but knowing that it is a flawed statistic.
I would have to disagree with the bolded. From the 3 you mentioned, here is how I would make the order of importance......
1. Limit your walks
2. Limit your walks
3. Strike people out
4. Keep people from hitting the ball in the air
is fb/gb ratio really that important? Jered Weaver is a fly ball pitcher and he's being successful.
really I think it's
1. Strike people out
2. Keep people from hitting the ball hard
3. Limit Walks(you can have success by nibbling and walk a few a game, see: Josh Johnson)
Hmmm, I'm really amazed that people don't realize that limiting walks is the most important thing a pitcher can do.....
hmm, let's say if Jose Lima stopped walking people all of a sudden, will he be a cy young winner?
Striking people out shows that you have good stuff, so does keeping people from hitting the ball hard. Granted, you could be Ollie Perez but I'd rather have talent before anything else.