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Alfonso Soriano revisisted (Merged)

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Re: Sorry Sori

Postby Mugwump » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:50 pm

NikkiSixx wrote:
Mugwump wrote:Soriano will not play like a first rounder from here on out. He will have better overall numbers than expected at years end. Me thinks we will begin to see some deep valleys, so to speak, in his production. After hitting at this pace he has to slow down. It is ignorant to think otherwise.

If I had Sori I would be trying to trade him for the house. I would be trying to trade him for a first rounder.

He will slow down, that is obvious. He is putting up numbers that you would expect from the 1st overall pick right now. He still could put up 1st round numbers from here on out and have a decrease in production the rest of the year. lets say he hits .280, 20/20? those would be numbers I would like to see out of a first rounder in 3 months, and 3 weeks.


He COULD still maintain first round numbers, but most likely he will not. As an owner I wouldn't want to be betting on that. I think from here on out he will produce like a late second to early third round type player. Others may think differently.
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Postby Zito is God » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:04 pm

cordscords wrote:So whats more important? The 2 months and 1 week that have been played, or the 3 months and 3 weeks that are yet to come?

What happens next is the majority of the season. We KNOW what Soriano has already done, and maybe he has led you to first place this year. But if you dont have a big lead, and Soriano happens to (despite the fact that you dont think he will) he will end up HURTING owners down the strech.

Yes the final #'s will be very nice, but if he turns for worse the rest of the way, thats 3 months and 3 weeks of Soriano HURTING your production.

Don't you understand man!!!


I can imagine absolutely no situation where Soriano can hurt your team. He is a 4-1/2 tool player (right now 5 tool, but average is bound to drop).

The fact is the way he is producing right now is way better then even a legit 1st rounder, if this slows down it will slow down to the point of good production anyways. Even if he goes 20-20 the rest of the way he will still contribute to fantasy teams while providing killer final numbers.

Do I understand? Yes, I understand that you have no idea what you're talking about...
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:10 pm

Zito is God wrote:I can imagine absolutely no situation where Soriano can hurt your team. He is a 4-1/2 tool player (right now 5 tool, but average is bound to drop).


I actually agree with you on this part. Even my projections have Soriano contributing at 1st round levels as a power and speed combination but with subpar average, runs and rbis. I just think that as an entire package he will put up late 2nd round value from here on out. The only way that hurts your team is if you trade a legit first rounder to get him at this point.
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Postby NikkiSixx » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:30 pm

cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:So whats more important? The 2 months and 1 week that have been played, or the 3 months and 3 weeks that are yet to come?

What happens next is the majority of the season. We KNOW what Soriano has already done, and maybe he has led you to first place this year. But if you dont have a big lead, and Soriano happens to (despite the fact that you dont think he will) he will end up HURTING owners down the strech.

Yes the final #'s will be very nice, but if he turns for worse the rest of the way, thats 3 months and 3 weeks of Soriano HURTING your production.

Don't you understand man!!!


So stubborn...


Soriano will not hurt any team for the remainder of the year, you can quote me on that.

You are acting like its a given that Soriano will suck the remainder of the year...what kind of dumbass would do that? Making a prediction is one thing, but acting like its already true is another. Even if you are right, how can you act like its a given that he is going to hurt teams the rest of the year? Hell, even if he has a mediocre July (which I am sure you will be running your mouth for if he does have one), I guarantee he bounces back in August and put up good numbers in September as well. Everyone has bad months, Soriano is yet to have one, and it doesnt appear that June is going to be one of his bad months either. I think he will be closer to .280, with 20-25 for the rest of the year.


I never said that he would. I said "if he happens to". I never acted like it was a given.

And I realize that he wont "hurt" fantasy owners teams even he does revert to his career averages, or the decline that was previously projected for him. But the productivity could potentially drop by a large margin from what he is doing right now. (Anybody remember Bobby Abreu?)

And another thing for ZIG- Do you believe in buying low or selling high? Because we should be thankful for Sheltons season stats right now and continue to start him, and should be kicking Tiexera to the curb for his lack of power?

I understand that the overall statistics at the end of the season are very important, but what's done is already done. From here on out we can only look forward.

Do you even remotely get what is being said?


OK, Abreu's collapse was rare for a player of his caliber, and he even had a very good august...his July and September were pretty bad, but he was good in august.

If he reverts to his career averages he will still be helping a fantasy team and actually not hurt it at all...not even the slightest bit.



I think we can all agree that Soriano has been a great player for many years and well....Shelton has not, I think any fantasy owner who knows what they are talking about could have told you that during his hot streak, Shelton was a flash in the pan. I know for sure I did not buy into the whole Shelton thing on April 15th, nobody else should have either.. LETS STOP USING SHELTON AS THE UNIVERSAL COMPARISON TO GUYS WHO ARE ON A HOT STREAK.
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Postby cordscords » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:32 pm

Zito is God wrote:
cordscords wrote:So whats more important? The 2 months and 1 week that have been played, or the 3 months and 3 weeks that are yet to come?

What happens next is the majority of the season. We KNOW what Soriano has already done, and maybe he has led you to first place this year. But if you dont have a big lead, and Soriano happens to (despite the fact that you dont think he will) he will end up HURTING owners down the strech.

Yes the final #'s will be very nice, but if he turns for worse the rest of the way, thats 3 months and 3 weeks of Soriano HURTING your production.

Don't you understand man!!!


I can imagine absolutely no situation where Soriano can hurt your team. He is a 4-1/2 tool player (right now 5 tool, but average is bound to drop).

The fact is the way he is producing right now is way better then even a legit 1st rounder, if this slows down it will slow down to the point of good production anyways. Even if he goes 20-20 the rest of the way he will still contribute to fantasy teams while providing killer final numbers.

Do I understand? Yes, I understand that you have no idea what you're talking about...


If you read my last post, you would know that I worded that wrong.

I'm done arguing over this with you. I know what I'm talking about, and you know what you are talking about. But we got crossed up in the conversation somewhere. I'd just rather not get tangled up any more in the confusion.
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Postby NikkiSixx » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:33 pm

Zito is God wrote:
cordscords wrote:So whats more important? The 2 months and 1 week that have been played, or the 3 months and 3 weeks that are yet to come?

What happens next is the majority of the season. We KNOW what Soriano has already done, and maybe he has led you to first place this year. But if you dont have a big lead, and Soriano happens to (despite the fact that you dont think he will) he will end up HURTING owners down the strech.

Yes the final #'s will be very nice, but if he turns for worse the rest of the way, thats 3 months and 3 weeks of Soriano HURTING your production.

Don't you understand man!!!


I can imagine absolutely no situation where Soriano can hurt your team. He is a 4-1/2 tool player (right now 5 tool, but average is bound to drop).

The fact is the way he is producing right now is way better then even a legit 1st rounder, if this slows down it will slow down to the point of good production anyways. Even if he goes 20-20 the rest of the way he will still contribute to fantasy teams while providing killer final numbers.

Do I understand? Yes, I understand that you have no idea what you're talking about...


I tend to side with Zito is God in this argument, but I wouldnt go as far as saying cords doesnt have any idea what he is talking about. And I wouldnt be talking to Zito is God like he is a 5 year old if I was cords has been. But overall, I am siding with Zito is God on this argument.


cords, you most certainly do bring up good points, not that I agree with them, but I most certainly understand it.
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Postby superfly » Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:55 pm

Zito is God wrote:I can imagine absolutely no situation where Soriano can hurt your team. He is a 4-1/2 tool player (right now 5 tool, but average is bound to drop).


Soriano is NOT a 5 tool player. He plays shoddy defense and his arm is not that good.
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:05 pm

superfly wrote:
Zito is God wrote:I can imagine absolutely no situation where Soriano can hurt your team. He is a 4-1/2 tool player (right now 5 tool, but average is bound to drop).


Soriano is NOT a 5 tool player. He plays shoddy defense and his arm is not that good.


He meant to say 5 category...those terms get confused all the time.
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Postby NikkiSixx » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:07 pm

superfly wrote:
Zito is God wrote:I can imagine absolutely no situation where Soriano can hurt your team. He is a 4-1/2 tool player (right now 5 tool, but average is bound to drop).


Soriano is NOT a 5 tool player. He plays shoddy defense and his arm is not that good.


5 tool for fantasy and real life are 2 different things...and I would double check your facts on the whole "Soriano's arm isnt that good" comment, he had 10 outfield assists last I checked, not to mention he has always had a very strong arm from 2B, so why wouldnt he in the outfield?


5 tool player for fantasy means you can contribute in each of the 5 basic offensive categories.
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:40 am

I'm a Soriano owner, and again I'll side with LL. Nothing about Alfonso's stats in the past suggest that he will be able to keep this pace up (or even anywhere close to this pace- LL points out the absolutely crazy HR/flyball rate he's on right now). The bottomline for Soriano owners right now is how much he will contribute the rest of the year, and IMO, it will be significantly less than he's done in the first 1/3. He went through massive average slumps in Arlington, therefore you would have to assume that there's absolutely no reason why he won't go through these slumps again in a pitching park at RFK. He'll always hit his HR's and get SB's though. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended somewhere near 45 HR and 30 SB, but I don't believe he'll finish with an average above .280 (and I'm an optimist with this guy).
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