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Postby Transmogrifier » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:23 pm

I took Gagne right where I wanted to this year--at the top of the fifth round. One guy in my league was complaining that it makes no sense to draft one cat stars that early, yadda yadda.

Well, others drafted in that round include Matt Morris, Bagwell, Vidro, Shawn Green, Smoltz, Mussina... It's not like I missed out on THAT much.

And I'll pick him again in the fifth.
I'm back. Sorta.

Do not boo Johnny.
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Postby guest » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:30 pm

I think y'all are overstating this a little bit. The only really top 10 closers that have flopped totally are Benitez and Koch. Mike Williams and Scott Williamson had been solid in the past, but neither was considered a top closer. Nen and Sasaki have been injured. Jimenez and Urbina weren't exactly top-shelf closers. Guys like Foulke, Rivera, Wagner, not among the top 2 but certainly up there, have been solid this year. After the top 10 or so, it's more of a crapshoot this year than most, but they've always been pretty unpredictable.
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Postby jdh » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:35 pm

guest wrote:I think y'all are overstating this a little bit. The only really top 10 closers that have flopped totally are Benitez and Koch. Mike Williams and Scott Williamson had been solid in the past, but neither was considered a top closer. Nen and Sasaki have been injured. Jimenez and Urbina weren't exactly top-shelf closers. Guys like Foulke, Rivera, Wagner, not among the top 2 but certainly up there, have been solid this year. After the top 10 or so, it's more of a crapshoot this year than most, but they've always been pretty unpredictable.


Preseason, or at least a couple months before the season, most people would have considered the top 10 closers to be something like this: Gagne, Smoltz, Rivera, Wagner, Nen, Sasaki, Benitez, Koch, Hoffman, Urbina. Of this 10, 6 of them have basically performed severely below expectations (Nen, Sasaki, Benitez, Koch, Hoffman, Urbina) for whatever reason. This just indicates the risk with even the top notch closers.
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Postby GSes » Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:07 pm

Ok first off would I take Smoltz or Gagne over Arod or Zito, hell no. What Im saying is they are worthy of at least a third round pick. I mean usually these guys get traded for top studs. I would not believe u if u tell me that Gagne was traded in ur league for the likes of Bartolo Colon, Jose Cruz, or Mondesi. I wouldnt believe u if u said that even great players such as Bernie Williams, Edmonds, or Chipper Jones. Players that I see Gagne/Smoltz get traded for are stud hittes/pitchers. My point is again that closers are a very unstacked postion which makes them very valuable. U guys sit here for hours trying to figure out who the new Reds closer is when u new he will get u some saves while killing ur era/whip. Having more that 1 crappy closer in a roto league will kill ur era/whip. In a H2H league it takes 1 crappy closer to end ur week in era/whip, example my closers in that league Looper, Williamson, Percival, Izzy, well last week the guy had Mesa and Mesa was shelled like usual. Im still in 1st place thatnks to Jose Mesa. So I could argue that u need closers which I know u all wil agree with and Gagne/Smoltz ok fine they don't help u in anything but 1 catgory BUT yes they do because they dont hurt you at all unlike most closers so if u have a good stalf they arent rruined by a Jose Mesa.

ESPN.com the last 3 traded made for Gagne were Pedro,Zito, Brian Giles.

Last 3 made for Smoltz were Hudson, Giles, Luis Gonzalez

Everyone here knows that in order to get Gagne or Smoltz you would have to give up something pretty good. Now let me make it clear I WOULD never trade Pedro,Zito,Hudson for a closer as good as they may be so I agree with u on that. Because Gagne/Smoltz don't hurt u in era/whip they help u.
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