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We should abolish the Wins stat.

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We should abolish the Wins stat.

Postby bleach168 » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:10 pm

So it's okay to give up 7 earned runs in 6 innings and still get rewarded with a win? Yeah that sounds fair... not.

Mark Prior on the other hand goes 8 solid innings giving up 2 runs and he gets a no-decision.

When it comes time to vote for Cy Young and they give it to Woody Williams over Mark Prior by a hair, I'm crying foul.
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Postby DGroundhog » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:22 pm

Let's get rid of ERA too, since in isolated instances it too is not a 100 % accurate indicator of how a pitcher pitches. K's? Who cares. An out is an out. Saves? Why should one inning wonders who are babied their entire carees get to vulture a stat off the teams performance for the previous 8 innings.

There's a few hitting categories that we should get rid of too, HR, RBI, runs, and SB.

Next year I'm joining a 1 x 1 roto league, it'll be sweet.

:-?
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Postby jdh » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:33 pm

Yes, Williams did get a win when he didn't pitch well tonight because the offense scored lots of runs. But in all fairness, on at least 3 other starts, he pitched well and left with a lead and the bullpen blew it. This makes up for those fiascos.
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Postby bleach168 » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:37 pm

There was this one guy who had a 3.51 ERA and a 1.26 WHIP. Do you think those numbers are good? Do you think those numbers are good enough to win the Cy Young?

That's what Roger Clemens did in 2001. They gave the Cy Young to him because he had the best run support in the majors. Wow, he deserved it huh?
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Postby jdh » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:45 pm

I think the Cy Young award is as much an award for value of the pitcher to the team as it is an award for best overall pitching. Obviously, the won-loss record shows how many wins a pitcher actually won for that team so that is heavily weighted. They still do look at ERA, and I remember situations where there has been a pitcher with an excellent record and 20+ wins that gets passed over because of a mediocre ERA (4.00+).

Also, alot of veteran pitchers have different gears they can pitch in, and can pick it up into another gear when the game is close or on the line but tend to give up runs when they have a huge lead. It's why I don't think ERA/WHIP is a great indication of the value of the pitcher to the team. Guys that come up big in clutch situations and guys that help their teams to pennant races of course should be given extra weight in Cy voting.
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Postby DGroundhog » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:56 pm

Yes, he did because he had an unbelieveable run of like starting off 20-1 or something obscene. I have no problem with Roger winning it that year, Zito winning last year, or Halladay if he wins it this year.

These awards, like MVP awards, often have a deciding factor of a teams sucess. You can almost expect a succesful team will score runs.
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:00 am

These awards, like MVP awards, often have a deciding factor of a teams sucess.


Well, geez, Freddy Garcia had a better ERA and more innings pitched than Clemens. Oh yeah, and he played on a team that won a record 116 games. Garcia however only won 18 games.

Yeah, Clemens did have a 20-1 record at one point, but I didn't know you could award the Cy Young before the season is over.

It's a crying shame I tell you :(
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Postby DGroundhog » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:25 am

he played on a team that won a record 116 games. Garcia however only won 18 games.


That is probably why he DIDN'T win it. Even on a record winning team, he amassed only 18 wins.

A crying shame would be if we referred to Garcia as a former Cy Young winner.
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Postby Dr.DooM » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:27 am

I agree that wins is generally a poor way of measuring a pitcher's skills. However, some pitchers have a tendency to "kick it up a notch" when the game is close and perform beyond their expected ability to win the game. In contrast, when the game is a blowout, they'll slack a bit and allow a few more hits/runs than usual. These are the clutch pitchers that perform well under pressure and you can identify them since they will often aquire many wins with only an average ERA/WHIP. This is a very narrow window of information that should be gleaned from the win count. Not very useful on it's own but does highlight who the most successful (not necessarily the most skillful) pitchers are.
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:30 am

Pat Hentgen is a former Cy Young winner :p
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