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Are the Rangers stupid?

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Postby slomo007 » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:37 am

Phatferd wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Wilkerson is an extremely talented player, very underrated by fantasy owners, but great in real life. He has great plate patience, can steal, hit for some power (much more in Arlington) and is flexible on defense.

I would have traded Soriano for him alone. The Rangers have plenty of free-swinging sluggers, most notably Blalock, Nix, and even Teix to a point.....but what they really need is someone with some patience to get on base consistently. He fits this need.

I would now like to see Nix, Mench, or Delucci traded for some pitching (not named Benson) and that Soriano trade could turn out to be a VERY good deal for the Rangers.


They don't need a hitter, they need a bat. It's that simple. Even if they improved their offense (debateable), they still have the same issue that they always have. NO PITCHING. If they let Soriano go for a bag of peanuts and put Mark DeRosa at 2B they would still be a good offensive team.

They need a pitcher and their most valuable trade bait was used to add a bat?


I agree about DeRosa - he had better not be the plan at 2b.

However, I think you're overlooking that just because he was the "most valuable" trade bait, doesn't mean they made a poor trade. In fact, they now have more trade bait to play around with, because Sledge is around too. They could gamble and pair 2 OFers in exchange for one pitcher, or maybe even 2 OFers for a pitcher and a 2b.

It was obvious that nobody besides the Mets were willing to give up any pitcher of decency (and I would hardly call Benson decent) for Soriano, so the Rangers did the next best thing and traded Soriano in order to attain more trading chips at other positions. Smart move IMO.
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Postby Madison » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:09 am

A couple of things:

Are the Rangers Stupid for looking at Ponson?


Not at all. Ranger fans are screaming for pitching, so why not throw a name out there? I doubt these talks are serious at all. It's just something to tide over the fans until we move an OF or two for an arm.

OhMrScottyTrav06 wrote:Well when you turn Alex Rodriguez into Brad Wilkerson and Termel Sledge... are you really going to expect much them to make smart moves?


This isn't even worth a response, but I feel like typing.

When the Rangers made the Arod signing, $25 million per year for the best ballplayer in the game wasn't that bad of a deal. Manny was at $20 million per year, Jeter got $18 or $19 million per year shortly after, etc, etc, etc. Sure, it was a bit too much, but to lock up the best player in the game for 10 years at $25 million per year, with the inflation that was going on? Would have looked like a heck of a steal by the 5th year if the market hadn't corrected itself. Not nearly as bad of a signing at the time it was done, as some people think.

As stated, the market did correct itself and the Rangers were stuck behind the 8-ball, with a contract that was too big to reasonably handle. What did they do? They opened up their payroll by moving Arod, and getting Soriano. While Soriano isn't Arod, Sori's bat and youth worked well for the Rangers, and the trade wasn't all that bad.

Now Sori's going to get $10 million or more in arbitration, and can walk at the end of the year. No teams were going to give up pitching for him. It was all over ESPN that the Rangers got the best possible deal they could have. While I disagree that this was the best possible deal, I do agree that no one was going to give up any decent pitching for a 1 year, $10 million dollar rental of Soriano. To think otherwise is just plain silly.

So what did we get for Sori? The leadoff hitter we need, solid trade bait if we decide not to keep them, or the option of moving one of our current excess OF's in return for pitching.

Think of it this way......

You've got 1 microwave, 2 DVD players, and no television.
I've got 2 microwaves, one television, and no DVD player.

You're not going to trade me a DVD player for one of my microwaves, so I find a third guy:

This other guy has no microwave, 2 televisions, and one DVD player.

I swap him a microwave for one of his televisions, and then swap that television with you for one of your DVD players. Everyone winds up getting what they want.

No different than what's going on right now with the Rangers. No one would give up the pitching we wanted on a 1 year, $10 million dollar rental of Soriano, so we traded him for pieces that we can either move, or use other pieces we already have, to get what we need.

Make more sense now, or do I have to put that a different way?

Phatferd wrote:They need a pitcher and their most valuable trade bait was used to add a bat?


Not exactly. Sori was not all that valuable in a trade. He's a 1 year, $10 million dollar rental player. No one was interested in giving up any decent pitching for that rental in return. Can't say I blame them either. We did get pieces that do allow us to go after the pitching we need now though, and that's what matters. The offseason is far from over, and there will be more trades made by the Rangers.
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Postby wrveres » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:16 am

Mad any chance of you having a Tivo go on special soon? ;-7
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Postby Madison » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:23 am

wrveres wrote:Mad any chance of you having a Tivo go on special soon? ;-7


Well I've got an extra grill, and know a guy who's got an extra Tivo. What are you offering for the Tivo I can get?



:-b
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Postby giants8307 » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:51 am

I believe the rangers' pitching staff to be highly underrated and their hitters to be overrated. Everyone keeps clammoring for the rockies and rangers to get pitching, but that's not necessarily thier problem. They've been rather competitive the past two years. Wilkerson is also underrated considering the parks he's played in, and to get a top prospect on top of that is a very good deal for texas.

edit: I meant texas has been competitive. :-b
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Postby wrveres » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:19 am

Madison wrote:
wrveres wrote:Mad any chance of you having a Tivo go on special soon? ;-7


Well I've got an extra grill, and know a guy who's got an extra Tivo. What are you offering for the Tivo I can get?



:-b


Chan Ho Park? ;-7
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:40 am

slomo007 wrote:
OhMrScottyTrav06 wrote:Well when you turn Alex Rodriguez into Brad Wilkerson and Termel Sledge... are you really going to expect much them to make smart moves?


The signing of A-Rod was the only mistake the Rangers made. Trading him for what turned out to be Wilkerson and Sledge is a positive, IMO. Not all trade value can be witnessed ON the field.


That wasn't the mistake they made. The mistakes they made were:

Darren Oliver: 3 years, $12 million; ERA: 7.42, 6.02, gone
Doug Davis: waived, picked up by Milwaukee
Rick Helling: 1 year, $4.5 million; ERA:5.17
Dave Burba: 1 year, $2 million; 111 IP, 5.42 ERA
Todd Van Poppel: 2 years, $4.5 million; 85 IP ERA of 5.45 and 8.53
John Rocker: 1 year, $2.5 million; 24 IP, ERA of 6.66
UUU: 1 year, $4.5 million; 38 IP and traded for dreck
And, of course,

Chan Ho Park: 4 years, $48.8 million; IP: 145, 29, 95, 109; ERA: 5.75, 7.58, 5.46, 5.66

THOSE were the mistakes.
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Postby bronxxbomber » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:08 am

the rangers going for ponson is just a rumor and even if it isn't he wouldn't be the worst sp at the end of the rotation in the league. what i don't get is why people are hating on the soriano deal. i know the rangers were trying hard to get some prospects for him. i remember they they talked to the mets for petit and millege, but that got nowhere. i think people don't realize that soriano fantasy value far exceeds his "real" value. and most teams wouldn't want to trade their top talent for a player unwilling to switch positions and a free swinger. wilkerson will be an improved version of the delucci they had last season.
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Postby Phatferd » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:11 am

I'm telling you, if they held onto Soriano for 2-3 months they could get more. If they waited until around the All-Star break for a team who really needed to add some pop, they would have overpaid for a guy like Soriano.

They probably could have gotten some teams number 1 or 2 pitching prospect. I have zero doubt in my mind.
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Postby RynMan » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:02 pm

I think the Rangers got good value for Soriano. It's just what they do as a result of the trade that will define whether or not it was a good move. If nothing happens as a result of it, then I think it wasn't a great move. But Nix has been mentioned alot in rumors so maybe this allows them to trade him for an arm.
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