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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:16 pm
by Comrade Antelope
Yoda wrote:
Field wrote:In fantasy baseball Mcab is not in Pujols or Arod level and you can't take Teixeira out of Arlington. Isn't the thread suppose to be about fantasy baseball value? It will be interesting to see where he is ranked going into next year especially if the Manny/Ortiz combo is broken up.


Title: Is MCab's value sinking like the Marlins?

No mention of real or fantasy. The answer is an emphatic "NO" in either case anyway. ;-D


Sorry Yoda, but Field is right here. If MCab were traded to the Yankees, everyone with half a brain would see his value improving because he'll have good people in front of him, good people behind him, and an organization hell-bent on winning. That leads to better pitches, more people on base in front of him better RBI, better runs,attitudes, etc.. You cannot deny that. And as such, you cannot deny that in the absence of such players and such attitudes, a player's value is diminished, in fantasy and in reality. MCab minus Delgado, Lowell, and likely Pierre does not equal MCab plus Hermida. Your point about Teixeria being lessvaluable if out of Texas makes the case for Field's arguement. And as far as MCab being in the class (or near it) of Arod and Teix, he hasnt come within 10 HR or 20RBI to either of their #s.....and thats likely because of the place and people they play with, which also strengthens Field's point. Any way you look at Cabrera's value is currently diminished in 06 because of the Marlins' recent transactions.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:43 pm
by Yoda
Comrade Antelope wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Field wrote:In fantasy baseball Mcab is not in Pujols or Arod level and you can't take Teixeira out of Arlington. Isn't the thread suppose to be about fantasy baseball value? It will be interesting to see where he is ranked going into next year especially if the Manny/Ortiz combo is broken up.


Title: Is MCab's value sinking like the Marlins?

No mention of real or fantasy. The answer is an emphatic "NO" in either case anyway. ;-D


Sorry Yoda, but Field is right here. If MCab were traded to the Yankees, everyone with half a brain would see his value improving because he'll have good people in front of him, good people behind him, and an organization hell-bent on winning. That leads to better pitches, more people on base in front of him better RBI, better runs,attitudes, etc.. You cannot deny that. And as such, you cannot deny that in the absence of such players and such attitudes, a player's value is diminished, in fantasy and in reality. MCab minus Delgado, Lowell, and likely Pierre does not equal MCab plus Hermida. Your point about Teixeria being lessvaluable if out of Texas makes the case for Field's arguement. And as far as MCab being in the class (or near it) of Arod and Teix, he hasnt come within 10 HR or 20RBI to either of their #s.....and thats likely because of the place and people they play with, which also strengthens Field's point. Any way you look at Cabrera's value is currently diminished in 06 because of the Marlins' recent transactions.


I love it when people say Miggy isn't close to Teixeira. Makes me laugh every single time. :-D

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:01 pm
by PlayingWithFire
Yoda wrote:
Comrade Antelope wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Field wrote:In fantasy baseball Mcab is not in Pujols or Arod level and you can't take Teixeira out of Arlington. Isn't the thread suppose to be about fantasy baseball value? It will be interesting to see where he is ranked going into next year especially if the Manny/Ortiz combo is broken up.


Title: Is MCab's value sinking like the Marlins?

No mention of real or fantasy. The answer is an emphatic "NO" in either case anyway. ;-D


Sorry Yoda, but Field is right here. If MCab were traded to the Yankees, everyone with half a brain would see his value improving because he'll have good people in front of him, good people behind him, and an organization hell-bent on winning. That leads to better pitches, more people on base in front of him better RBI, better runs,attitudes, etc.. You cannot deny that. And as such, you cannot deny that in the absence of such players and such attitudes, a player's value is diminished, in fantasy and in reality. MCab minus Delgado, Lowell, and likely Pierre does not equal MCab plus Hermida. Your point about Teixeria being lessvaluable if out of Texas makes the case for Field's arguement. And as far as MCab being in the class (or near it) of Arod and Teix, he hasnt come within 10 HR or 20RBI to either of their #s.....and thats likely because of the place and people they play with, which also strengthens Field's point. Any way you look at Cabrera's value is currently diminished in 06 because of the Marlins' recent transactions.


I love it when people say Miggy isn't close to Teixeira. Makes me laugh every single time. :-D


Talentwise Miggy is Better than Teixeira but fantasywise NEXT YEAR ONLY consider the park and the people hitting around those 2, Teixeira is better(it's close though and no where in Comrade's post did he say it's not close)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:03 pm
by J35J
I'd have to agree with both on this one.

Miggy is at ARod and Pujols level for the most part but just like Helton didn't have real good RBI and Run totals this year because of the lack of talent around him and just like how most people say Ortiz will have lower RBI and Run totals this coming year if Manny leaves it will be the same for Miggy as he will get walked more and there won't be the quality around him to drive him in or to be on base to be driven in!

Miggy is still a first rounder but he will probably fall a couple slots on my rankings as well.

Jason

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:04 pm
by GotowarMissAgnes
I'm not always sure what people mean by "in someone's class" since player's values are not permanent fixtures. In any case, over the last three years, Pujols has ranked either 1 or 2, while ARod has been 1, 12, and 3. Tex has been 35 and 5, while Cabrera has been 39 and 18. Given the youth of the last two, I'd be hardpressed to say that they are not in the same class as ARod and Pujols.

And, as far as real baseball value goes, you have to take into account park and age and taking those MCab>>Tex. Just take a look at the comparable players:

http://baseballreference.com/friv/scomp ... =25&age=25

http://baseballreference.com/friv/scomp ... =22&age=22

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:07 pm
by Yoda
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Comrade Antelope wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Field wrote:In fantasy baseball Mcab is not in Pujols or Arod level and you can't take Teixeira out of Arlington. Isn't the thread suppose to be about fantasy baseball value? It will be interesting to see where he is ranked going into next year especially if the Manny/Ortiz combo is broken up.


Title: Is MCab's value sinking like the Marlins?

No mention of real or fantasy. The answer is an emphatic "NO" in either case anyway. ;-D


Sorry Yoda, but Field is right here. If MCab were traded to the Yankees, everyone with half a brain would see his value improving because he'll have good people in front of him, good people behind him, and an organization hell-bent on winning. That leads to better pitches, more people on base in front of him better RBI, better runs,attitudes, etc.. You cannot deny that. And as such, you cannot deny that in the absence of such players and such attitudes, a player's value is diminished, in fantasy and in reality. MCab minus Delgado, Lowell, and likely Pierre does not equal MCab plus Hermida. Your point about Teixeria being lessvaluable if out of Texas makes the case for Field's arguement. And as far as MCab being in the class (or near it) of Arod and Teix, he hasnt come within 10 HR or 20RBI to either of their #s.....and thats likely because of the place and people they play with, which also strengthens Field's point. Any way you look at Cabrera's value is currently diminished in 06 because of the Marlins' recent transactions.


I love it when people say Miggy isn't close to Teixeira. Makes me laugh every single time. :-D


no where in Comrade's post did he say it's not close


see the sentence in bold

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:09 pm
by J35J
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:I'm not always sure what people mean by "in someone's class" since player's values are not permanent fixtures. In any case, over the last three years, Pujols has ranked either 1 or 2, while ARod has been 1, 12, and 3. Tex has been 35 and 5, while Cabrera has been 39 and 18. Given the youth of the last two, I'd be hardpressed to say that they are not in the same class as ARod and Pujols.

And, as far as real baseball value goes, you have to take into account park and age and taking those MCab>>Tex. Just take a look at the comparable players:

http://baseballreference.com/friv/scomp ... =25&age=25

http://baseballreference.com/friv/scomp ... =22&age=22



Yeah obviously MCab is closer to Pujols and ARod in real baseball than in fantasy but I guess that doesn't really matter. Thats all I was meaning anyway.

Jason

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:14 pm
by PlayingWithFire
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Comrade Antelope wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Field wrote:In fantasy baseball Mcab is not in Pujols or Arod level and you can't take Teixeira out of Arlington. Isn't the thread suppose to be about fantasy baseball value? It will be interesting to see where he is ranked going into next year especially if the Manny/Ortiz combo is broken up.


Title: Is MCab's value sinking like the Marlins?

No mention of real or fantasy. The answer is an emphatic "NO" in either case anyway. ;-D


Sorry Yoda, but Field is right here. If MCab were traded to the Yankees, everyone with half a brain would see his value improving because he'll have good people in front of him, good people behind him, and an organization hell-bent on winning. That leads to better pitches, more people on base in front of him better RBI, better runs,attitudes, etc.. You cannot deny that. And as such, you cannot deny that in the absence of such players and such attitudes, a player's value is diminished, in fantasy and in reality. MCab minus Delgado, Lowell, and likely Pierre does not equal MCab plus Hermida. Your point about Teixeria being lessvaluable if out of Texas makes the case for Field's arguement. And as far as MCab being in the class (or near it) of Arod and Teix, he hasnt come within 10 HR or 20RBI to either of their #s.....and thats likely because of the place and people they play with, which also strengthens Field's point. Any way you look at Cabrera's value is currently diminished in 06 because of the Marlins' recent transactions.


I love it when people say Miggy isn't close to Teixeira. Makes me laugh every single time. :-D


no where in Comrade's post did he say it's not close


see the sentence in bold


huh, I thought we were talking about the ARod/Pujol class? :-?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:18 pm
by Yoda
BTW, no knock on Teixiera... He's obviously a great hitter and destined for a HOF type career if conditions remain the same. I actually predicted in 04 that given his age, ball park, progression that he could be a top 10 hitter by the end of 05.

It's just that while everyone is quick to point out Teixiera's power and his eye popping numbers, not too many people realize that given their age and park factor, that Miggy is a superior hitter.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:19 pm
by Yoda
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Comrade Antelope wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Field wrote:In fantasy baseball Mcab is not in Pujols or Arod level and you can't take Teixeira out of Arlington. Isn't the thread suppose to be about fantasy baseball value? It will be interesting to see where he is ranked going into next year especially if the Manny/Ortiz combo is broken up.


Title: Is MCab's value sinking like the Marlins?

No mention of real or fantasy. The answer is an emphatic "NO" in either case anyway. ;-D


Sorry Yoda, but Field is right here. If MCab were traded to the Yankees, everyone with half a brain would see his value improving because he'll have good people in front of him, good people behind him, and an organization hell-bent on winning. That leads to better pitches, more people on base in front of him better RBI, better runs,attitudes, etc.. You cannot deny that. And as such, you cannot deny that in the absence of such players and such attitudes, a player's value is diminished, in fantasy and in reality. MCab minus Delgado, Lowell, and likely Pierre does not equal MCab plus Hermida. Your point about Teixeria being lessvaluable if out of Texas makes the case for Field's arguement. And as far as MCab being in the class (or near it) of Arod and Teix, he hasnt come within 10 HR or 20RBI to either of their #s.....and thats likely because of the place and people they play with, which also strengthens Field's point. Any way you look at Cabrera's value is currently diminished in 06 because of the Marlins' recent transactions.


I love it when people say Miggy isn't close to Teixeira. Makes me laugh every single time. :-D


no where in Comrade's post did he say it's not close


see the sentence in bold


huh, I thought we were talking about the ARod/Pujol class? :-?


The sentence in bold says AROD and TEIX... Am I missing something? Or are you? <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif>