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The Mike Mussina HOF Debate

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Postby Rirruto » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:19 pm

Yoda wrote:
blankman wrote:Declining already. Apparently none of you have seen him pitch of late. He's flat out dealing like he always has.

HOF though? Not now. 300 Wins and he'd make it, but thats a long way away.


Yep. Look at his 04-05 compared to previous years. BB/HR up, K down. Lost some zip in his fastball. I'd say it's pretty safe to say he isn't as dominant as he used to be wouldn't you?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4715

His WHIP and BAA have also taken a noticable increase the past 2 seasons
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:30 pm

I am a HUGE Mussina fan and think it is extremely underrated by most baseball fans. However, I do think, at this point, he is a borderline HoF. It is true that he does not have the dominant credentials of the bext HoF candidates. His Black Ink index (times he led the league in various pitching stats) is just 14, where the average HoF pitcher has 40.

His career, however, is one of those that sometimes allows a player who was very, very good for a long time to make it into the HoF. And that shows in his other HoF measures. His Grey Ink index is 212 (average HoF is 185), his HoF Standard Test is 45 (average H0F is 50) and his HoF monitor is 101 (likely HoF is 100; a cinch is 130). Four of his ten most comparable players are in the HoF and others are, like him, borderliners (e.g., Glavine).

I think it's right that the next 3-5 years make the difference. If he closes out with several strong years, I think he gets in. If he follows a normal age trend down, then he just misses.
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Postby vapormike » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:39 pm

8 runs in the 5th.

I blame myself for this.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:41 pm

Certainly borderline and it depends on his final numbers. If guys like Phil Niekro and Don Sutton can get in, why not Moose, esp if he plays 4-5 more years and gets close to 300 Ws with about 3000 Ks.
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Postby blankman » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:41 pm

vapormike wrote:8 runs in the 5th.

I blame myself for this.


Ok, I'll blame you too then :-° :-[
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Postby The Miner Part 2 » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:46 pm

Vernon Wells a Hall of Famer? }:-)
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:49 pm

I don't think he'll get in. He's been a good pitcher, but he just misses the hall of FAME. Pedro, Clemens, Johnson are hall of famers. Mussina isn't quite in that range. If he gets to 300, then he'll get in simply because of that number, but until then, he's out.
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Postby BaseballFann0008 » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:54 pm

mike just looks terrible tonight
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Postby zoozam » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:24 pm

He's never won 20 games either ... no Cy, no WSeries and no 20-games = No HOF.
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Postby Tavish » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:46 pm

Without making the 300 he is on the outside looking in. Very good pitcher but a good distance away from the best players of his generation.
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