Return to Baseball Leftovers

The Mike Mussina HOF Debate

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

The Mike Mussina HOF Debate

Postby vapormike » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:51 pm

It occured to me tonight during the game after his 3000th inning that Mike Mussina stands a shot at the getting into the Hall. Obviously not a first-ballot, but at some point.

The evidence:

35 years old, with 223 wins, 2390 strikeouts, and a 3.61 ERA. Now I know that's not immediately that impressive, but consider that he stands a chance to win 300 if he pitches decently into his early 40s on a winning team. If he pitches until he's 41 for example he will need to average 13 wins a season. Eminently doable in my opinion if he continues to pitch for a team of approximately the same quality as this year's Yanks.

Has 5 near-perfect games
5 time all-star
6 time gold glover
vapormike
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 203
(Past Year: -1)
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: The Mike Mussina HOF Debate

Postby Yoda » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:53 pm

vapormike wrote:It occured to me tonight during the game after his 3000th inning that Mike Mussina stands a shot at the getting into the Hall. Obviously not a first-ballot, but at some point.

The evidence:

35 years old, with 223 wins, 2390 strikeouts, and a 3.61 ERA. Now I know that's not immediately that impressive, but consider that he stands a chance to win 300 if he pitches decently into his early 40s on a winning team. If he pitches until he's 41 for example he will need to average 13 wins a season. Eminently doable in my opinion if he continues to pitch for a team of approximately the same quality as this year's Yanks.

Has 5 near-perfect games
5 time all-star
6 time gold glover


no
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21191
(Past Year: -153)
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Postby Big Pimpin » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:54 pm

He's never won a Cy Young, and never seemed to be a dominant enough pitcher to have any shot IMO. Maybe that changes if he pitches until he's 50 (facetious) and gets 300 wins, but I don't know. He's never seemed like a HOFer to me. A (very) good pitcher, sure, but not a guy that belongs in the hall.
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13224
(Past Year: -486)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Postby vapormike » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:56 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:He's never won a Cy Young, and never seemed to be a dominant enough pitcher to have any shot IMO. Maybe that changes if he pitches until he's 50 (facetious) and gets 300 wins, but I don't know. He's never seemed like a HOFer to me. A (very) good pitcher, sure, but not a guy that belongs in the hall.


What if at age 40 he stands with 300 wins? No pitcher with that number has not been elected (yet.) He would need to average between 15-16 wins for the next five years to achieve that.
vapormike
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 203
(Past Year: -1)
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Rirruto » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:58 pm

He's not a HoFer in my opinion. Just a very good pitcher pitcher for a good number of years. The closest he got to a Cy Young was in 1999 and he had a 3.50 ERA that year.
Image
Rirruto
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2499
(Past Year: -26)
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Mezzanine Section 12 @ Shea

Postby Big Pimpin » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:00 pm

vapormike wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:He's never won a Cy Young, and never seemed to be a dominant enough pitcher to have any shot IMO. Maybe that changes if he pitches until he's 50 (facetious) and gets 300 wins, but I don't know. He's never seemed like a HOFer to me. A (very) good pitcher, sure, but not a guy that belongs in the hall.


What if at age 40 he stands with 300 wins? No pitcher with that number has not been elected (yet.) He would need to average between 15-16 wins for the next five years to achieve that.


Yeah I mean if that happens, then he's got a shot. But I don't see it happening. For one, Moose isn't as good as he used to be, no question about it. Secondly, he wins a lot of games now by having an offense that outscores guys when he gives up 3 or 4 or 5 runs in a game. That's not going to happen forever.

I think over the next five years you're going to see the Yanks take a big dive. They're getting very old, are stuck with some huge oong-term contracts, and have no farm system to build with. They're not going to just keep adding payroll, because even George can't afford a $300 or $400M payroll. I guess you never know, but I still don't like Moose's chances.

And if he goes in, I hope he goes in as an Oriole. Those were his best years.
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13224
(Past Year: -486)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Postby Yoda » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:01 pm

He is clearly declining already. At his peak he was probably a top 5-6 starter but never was he dominant enough to be considered a HOF. 300 W is nice but I think it will be just out of his reach.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21191
(Past Year: -153)
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Postby dannyolbb » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:02 pm

He's good, but I don't think he's a HOFer. If he pitches until he's 40 at this pace, that's great. Probably makes the hall in that case. But I don't know that it's going to happen.

My money says he'll fall just short.
dannyolbb
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 708
(Past Year: -3)
Joined: 7 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sittin' on Trent Lotts porch

Postby Rirruto » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:03 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:I think over the next five years you're going to see the Yanks take a big dive. They're getting very old, are stuck with some huge oong-term contracts, and have no farm system to build with. They're not going to just keep adding payroll, because even George can't afford a $300 or $400M payroll.

I hope this doesn't become another Yankee argument and starts straying away from the original subject
Image
Rirruto
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2499
(Past Year: -26)
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Mezzanine Section 12 @ Shea

Postby Red Stripe » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:03 pm

He has never been dominant enought IMO to be a hall of famer. Hes a great pitcher and has had some pretty good years but hes never really been like one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in the league any year. His stats don't really seem like HoF eligible numbers either.
Image
Red Stripe
General Manager
General Manager

Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3795
(Past Year: -317)
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Omaha

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests