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buehrle's streak

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Postby mweir145 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:56 pm

Rirruto wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Rirruto wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Rirruto wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Here are a few names: Livan Hernandez, Roy Oswalt, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Chris Carpenter, Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Jake Peavy, Pedro Martinez, Ben Sheets, and to a lesser extent, Carlos Zambrano.

All of those guys are the aces of their staff. Buehrle's in great company ;-D


Well he should be, he is posting a great year this year.

So then that proves DK's point that there aren't many pitchers with similar numbers to him then.


He said there are not many, well I just found a bunch of them.

"There still aren't many pitchers who can perform up to Buehrle's quality." DK.

I guess we differ on the definition of "many." :-D

I guess we do, a list of 10 pitchers out of the hundreds of starting pitchers in the past 2 years isn't that many in my mind.

Another fun filled day of FBC while at work. I'm goin home!


Buerhle is the ace of his staff, if he is a good pitcher this would be the company of pitcher you would compare him too..There's nothing much more to it than that. You definitly don't compare him with the Josh Towers and Gil Meches of the world.

I'm starting to think that DK believes Buerhle is the best pitcher in baseball right now. :-[
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:59 pm

DK wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Rirruto wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Rirruto wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Here are a few names: Livan Hernandez, Roy Oswalt, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Chris Carpenter, Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Jake Peavy, Pedro Martinez, Ben Sheets, and to a lesser extent, Carlos Zambrano.

All of those guys are the aces of their staff. Buehrle's in great company ;-D


Well he should be, he is posting a great year this year.

So then that proves DK's point that there aren't many pitchers with similar numbers to him then.


He said there are not many, well I just found a bunch of them.

"There still aren't many pitchers who can perform up to Buehrle's quality." DK.

I guess we differ on the definition of "many." :-D


You listed 11 pitchers. There are about 200 starters used in the majors this year. Even of those eleven, most of those are debatable.

I don't think many people share your view of many.


If by many people, you mean a couple then yes, that's very true.

Buerhle is the ace of his staff, why not compare him with the other aces?
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Postby DK » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:00 pm

mweir145 wrote:
DK wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Here are a few names: Livan Hernandez, Roy Oswalt, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Chris Carpenter, Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Jake Peavy, Pedro Martinez, Ben Sheets, and to a lesser extent, Carlos Zambrano.

Most of those guys, you could favourably compare to Buerhle over the last 2 years during the duration of his streak. If I'm missing anybody, which I likely am, anybody can add a name.


Now, adjust for these facts:

Livan, Oswalt, Clemens (partly), Johnson (partly), Carpenter, Peavy, Pedro (partly), Sheets, and Zambrano all play in the NL. Much easier on a pitcher.

Livan, Oswalt, Clemens, Johnson (partly), Carpenter, Peavy, and Pedro (partly) all pitch in pitcher's parks.

Clemens, Johnson, and Pedro are all first-ballot Hall of Famers.

Carpenter is the best pitcher in baseball this year, or at least top 3.

Peavy in his last 47 starts has pitched 298 innings. Buehrle has pitched 87 more innings in just two more starts.

Now adjust for the facts instead of looking at the outside numbers and then come back to me.


So to adjust to the facts, we take Peavy out? I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. Do you want me to take Livan, Oswalt, Clemens, Johnson, Carpenter, Peavy and Pedro out of the discussion because they pitch in pitcher's parks. ;-7 I mean you can't be seriously thinking that Buerhle is a better pitcher than these guys..


I'm not saying take them out, I'm saying to adjust for the situations each pitcher is in.

The park factor for US Cellular is 109, which means that for every 100 runs scored in a neutral park, 109 are scored at US Cellular. Adjusting for that, Buehrle's ERA in a neutral park in the AL during the streak goes from 3.33 to 3.20.

Put Buehrle in a neutral park in the NL, his ERA becomes 2.96.

In the NL, find how many pitchers who over the last two seasons have an ERA of 2.96 while pitching at or around 380 innings.
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:03 pm

DK wrote:I'm not saying take them out, I'm saying to adjust for the situations each pitcher is in.
The park factor for US Cellular is 109, which means that for every 100 runs scored in a neutral park, 109 are scored at US Cellular. Adjusting for that, Buehrle's ERA in a neutral park in the AL during the streak goes from 3.33 to 3.20.
Put Buehrle in a neutral park in the NL, his ERA becomes 2.96.
In the NL, find how many pitchers who over the last two seasons have an ERA of 2.96 while pitching at or around 380 innings.


Well only a couple in that case, but that does mean Buerhle is the best and most dominant pitcher in baseball? Is that what you are saying?
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Postby TonyCee » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:03 pm

This thread gives me a headache, lol :*)
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:09 pm

Keep in mind, I've never said Buerhle wasn't a top 10 pitcher in this league (and I do think he is), but that doesn't mean I can't argue that his 49 start streak of 6+ innings isn't as good as it appears to be(I have made my points earlier in the thread as have others).
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Postby zergeR » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:27 pm

I dont see why Halladay and Beuhrle are being compared- the point is that Beuhrle going 6+ innings in 49 straight starts is a great help to his team. It was a great streak, give him credit for it.
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Postby DK » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:34 pm

mweir145 wrote:There are many pitchers in MLB that are the calibur of Buerhle.


mweir145 wrote:Keep in mind, I've never said Buerhle wasn't a top 10 pitcher in this league (and I do think he is)


:-?
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:38 pm

DK wrote:
mweir145 wrote:There are many pitchers in MLB that are the calibur of Buerhle.


mweir145 wrote:Keep in mind, I've never said Buerhle wasn't a top 10 pitcher in this league (and I do think he is)


:-?


Again..., this goes back to the definition of "many." I'm still waiting to hear what you think of Buerhle. From looking at a few of your posts it seems to me you think he is the best and most dominant starter in the league, but in my mind he isn't close (that is unless you count top 10 in the league being close ;-7) .
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:39 pm

zergeR wrote:I dont see why Halladay and Beuhrle are being compared- the point is that Beuhrle going 6+ innings in 49 straight starts is a great help to his team. It was a great streak, give him credit for it.


As you can see, it isn't just Halladay we are comparing to Buerhle, it is actually every starter.

However, this thread really isn't about that.

I was merely pointing out that to go 6 innings every start, you don't necessarily have to be good every single time.
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